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Post by quattro on Mar 11, 2020 10:21:22 GMT -5
Fellas.
I know I ask allot of questions but the internet can only tell me so much. Just playing catch up.
Looked at the interesting post on the first CART race in 1979 got me thinking a model of the winners car would be worth a go.
Problem is I see no pics of the Mears car (did see something about Johncock winning, but I am no expert and that is for the other thread). And dunno if it is a PC6 or PC7. Probably the exact same PC6 that AMT put out in terms of sponsors etc.....
So from there I wondered if there were any kits of the PC7. Did my search on here and found a nice run of material from 2008 about doing a PC7 but could not see the images because Photofu..., oops. Steady. Use the real name, Photbucket pulled their stunt on everyone's pics. Lance Sellers transkit? They still available?
Maybe a decent elevation/plan drawing would do me. I would consider doing it at 1/43 if at all possible given there ain't many AMT kits left. Just an idea, but any pointers or info appreciated. |
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Post by indy on Mar 11, 2020 13:45:46 GMT -5
No full PC7 kits in any scale, that I know about. There is an old FSM article about changing the AMT PC6 kit into a PC7, I can send you a copy. I skipped the Lance kit, I forget why - probably money. Would love to get one or have him reissue it.
Also, I have some AMT PC6 kits if anyone wants to buy one.
HTH
Jordan
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Post by hurtubise56 on Mar 11, 2020 15:11:54 GMT -5
Blueline Decals did a die-cut sheet plastic kit of parts to do the basic body conversion, pretty much provided the pieces to do what the FSM article showed you.
Brian
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Post by pje on Mar 11, 2020 18:06:54 GMT -5
Here's the Fine Scale article if you want to take it on.   Paul Erlendson |
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Post by SWT500 on Mar 11, 2020 19:50:13 GMT -5
The PC7 was basically a PC6 with tunnels. It was a seat of the pants first effort but the beginning of the ground effects era, ushered in by the Lotus F1 car, which influenced the Chaparall of Jim Hall.
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Post by quattro on Mar 12, 2020 2:54:19 GMT -5
WOW!
You guys are so great. The knowledge and the helpfulness in passing on the info. Thank you all so much.
Looking at it does remind me of that mad scramble at the time to make use of 'ground effects'. Looking at the PC7 reminds me of McLaren turning up with an M26 E with the bolted on tunnels in 1978 for James Hunt to try.
You lads probably did all this material say, 12 to 16 years ago? OH blimey. Just spotted the article is from 1986! Like I said. I am playing catch up.
Very much a 70s and 80s child me. In modelling terms can make life interesting in sourcing all the OOP stuff but usually worth the effort.
That is another round of beers on me. Cheers!
Joe |
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Post by quattro on Apr 29, 2020 12:41:20 GMT -5
OK, Sorry to dredge this to the top but on the scrounge for info.
Bringing this one up again because I am now armed with two PC6 kits thanks to a beyond helpful forum star.
I know this kit is not everyone's favourite. Its like some weird right of passage. You are not a builder of Indycar kits until you have done an AMT Penske PC6. Correctly! Then and only then, my son, can you call yourself a man.... Reminds me of the early days of 1/43rd. John Day kits. Loved him for doing them. But oh boy! What me and some mates here call 'Boil in a bag' kits....... I digress.
Info shout. Anyone know of or have a pic of Andretti in the 1979 Penske PC7? Think it was the California 500 towards end of year. He placed third behind the other two Penskes and I think it was his one run that year in the USA that year. I have one head on shot.
Secondly. I studied the pics of Calvin's PC7 and various shots available. The area around the roll hoops and the top of the cowling towards the rear are not PC6 standard are they? Just do not want to look at 'Historics' as I know things get changed. Looking at it I think the Calvin spec is probably as right as it can be. And I believe the rear wing should be one element. Yeah. I have eyes but would appreciate if anyone who knows can confirm.
Think this will go somewhere between the trans info above and what I see of the bitz that made up Lance's transkit.
Thanks for indulging me fellas. For right now, this is exactly the job I need to get my teeth into. |
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Post by 2lapsdown on Apr 29, 2020 14:02:10 GMT -5
Good luck with your project. I've never had a kit fight me like that PC6. It looks okay on the shelf unless you look close. I'm hoping you have better luck.
John
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Post by raceparke on Apr 29, 2020 14:10:06 GMT -5
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Post by SWT500 on Apr 29, 2020 18:15:41 GMT -5
Year or two ago during a lull on the spotter stand, I asked Rick Mears what went through his mind when he saw Bobby, who was leading, having what turned out to be gearbox trouble. I was surprised when he told me that he was mad because he wanted to race him and believed he could beat him. Just my two cents on the 1979 race.
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Post by quattro on Apr 29, 2020 23:59:03 GMT -5
Already so helpful. Cheers Chaps.
Raceparke. Thank you for the close up shots and that WIP is mega. I already started and went a different way. But WOW. Wish I had seen what you did first. Really nice stuff. So tight.
SWT500. Diamond insight that.
Cannot help wondering why Andretti did not get more seat time in the PC7 given he knew all about Ground Effect. Guess he was spending all his time trying to get the Lotus 80 working right...... |
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Post by quattro on May 2, 2020 2:38:45 GMT -5
This is all so fascinating looking up PC 7 ref. Old hat to you I guess but amazing the slight variants. And that just on the 'BUNSER' car. Car without the protruding strip along the flanks. Rear element that wraps and doesn't wrap around the engine. Cowling differences. Roll hoop differences. Obviously developments but could never find a timeline it it all if I tried.
Then I find yet another variant here.....
Guessing this is an early incarnation given the rads at the rear are horizontal and not conducive to curving up the floor for the underbody funnel. And that rear wing! Couldn't be more Lotus 79 if it tried....
Jeez. I know this aint a race car forum. Just getting caught up in the subject.
So. Progress. Again with thanks to a few of you lads for the kit, the guide and the pointers. Its an awkward bugga but for some odd reason I am kinda well into it.... fair bit of sanding and filling to do but getting there even if I went about it in an odd way after seeing the WIPs.
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Post by raceparke on May 2, 2020 7:05:00 GMT -5
Quattro,
Looking very nice.
Dan
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Post by Gary Davis on May 2, 2020 14:33:50 GMT -5
Hey Quattro...I'm right there with Dan...This is looking REALLY GREAT. I did another version of the PC-7. I did the 1980 Tim Richmond Car. Keep up the good work....   |
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Post by raceparke on May 2, 2020 15:11:03 GMT -5
Gary,
That is spectacular! Did I miss a WIP on this? Just beautiful.
Dan
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Post by Gary Davis on May 2, 2020 20:05:40 GMT -5
Well Dan....I didn't do a wip on this build as you and Calvin and a few others did one already. So...I just posted it when it was finished. Jordan already bawled me out for not doing a W.I.P.....LOL. Thank you very much for the complement and the Inspiration to build that bad boy. Here's the link to that build. It's on the second page of 79-95 Indy cars section.... mb2501.proboards.com/thread/9613/1980-tim-richmond-rookie-indycar |
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Post by Calvin on May 2, 2020 21:13:34 GMT -5
I used to be an expert on the PC7 but I've forgotten a bunch over the years.  |
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Post by quattro on May 2, 2020 22:36:21 GMT -5
Calvin. You have probably forgotten more than I could ever know on these subjects.
I checked out all of these wonderful examples on this forum before getting into it. Calvin's thoughtful notes for 'future' builds of the basic PC6. His version of the PC7. 'Deleted's nice wip of the PC6. Gary's superb version of the PC7 with the mind boggling decal job. Dan's clean tight example.
Cannot stop saying how helpful it is to a bloke like me who has gone back so relatively far in time and is studying the CART/USAC cars and races from the era when he started following the sport. I had half an eye on them whilst being so engrossed in F1 in my early teens.
And it was Andretti that was the portal at the time given my passion for the late 70s Lotus team and fan support for Gunnar Nilsson. Throw a name in here. Mike Hiss? Is that right? One from the memory bank. Sure you lads know what I am referring to if I got the name right.
Am actually working through parallel builds of the Andretti 78 and 79 cars.
Looking ahead on this little number I am gonna have to guess the livery. Got a lovely shot of the front of the Andretti car from '79 thanks to Jordan. Found some Califirnia 500 side ref of the Mears and Unser cars on ebay, but unfortunately no Mario. Some 35mm slides for sale taken at that race. I am guessing I will get it more or less right if Penske's liveries were consistent which I think they were.
But if anyone does have any clue do let me know.
Cheers.
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Post by Calvin on May 2, 2020 23:22:45 GMT -5
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Post by quattro on May 4, 2020 2:31:34 GMT -5
'Primer is your friend'.
Not half! Borrowed that from another thread I'm watching intently.
Well. Its all downhill from here chaps. Dunno what it is about me and my painting and finishing but probably get two out of ten just right to my eye when it comes to painting and lacquering. Don't seem to get them showroom smooth. But then the real cars never are. Just deluding meself methinks. We shall see.
Maybe should have studied the other WIPs closer. The guide from the magazine is very good but think the hole in the side should be a little further forward. Also think the rear top plates of the side pods should be a tad longer to let the deflectors ahead of the rear wheels go thru the 90 degree bend. Did not spot that til this point. But on the whole it is an elegant pre and post transkit solution for which I am grateful. And the rear tires look like the track width is too wide but that is down to me, the plastic, and not giving it enuf welly with the scalpel.
Getting allot out of this though. |
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Post by indy on May 4, 2020 11:36:25 GMT -5
I don't think I bawled Gary out.  I just think the more WIPs the better and who cares if several guys are building the same car at once. I love seeing building progress. I know what you mean about the article not quite getting all of the details right. Would be an interesting forum project to tackle with a group of interested participants from here to redo the guide with improved details. Quattro this build looks really good and you are really getting this one together very quick. Nicely done. I am very much looking forward to the updates on it. Jordan |
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Post by Gary Davis on May 4, 2020 13:12:13 GMT -5
This is really looking good quattro. I also tried to use that article from FSM. It was a little helpful on the shapes that was needed. It would've been nice if he had added dimensions to his drawings. Your on the back stretch now...Looking forward to seeing the paint on this bad boy....
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Post by quattro on May 7, 2020 4:45:38 GMT -5
Collecting my thoughts on this.
So that was two days at home after seven night shifts. Going in on six late turns now so this is gonna have to wait a bit.
Whilst on nights I had the crazy notion to doing all three California 500 cars! Then I thought about doing the Unser car, then the Mears then finally settled on my original thought of sticking to my Andretti theme. Just stems from having decent pictorial ref of the 12 and the 9 but I think the 99 is still worth a punt.
I always approach the paint stage with trepidation which is odd given all the years I have done this. Maybe it is because I always love the building and customising process of the job and do like how something looks all cleaned up with just primer on it before I vandalise it into its finished form.
Anyways. As it stands. Only given the cowling a quick lacquering thus far before running out of time. Just held together with blu tack at the mo.
Job list. Front wing end plates. Roll Hoop assembly with the 'headrest' and side plates. Valve thing for which I have the hole. Small metal plate air deflector at the rear of the cowling.
I managed to cut the air duct at the front of the cowling. Just couldn't get it to have the convex lines so it ended up a strait V shape. Gonna feed some flat radiator type material in the front of the side pods and in the top of the air outlets to tidy that up as well as the rear of the side pods.
One question for which I cannot find any reference is are there visible rad hoses running horizontally through the outlet duct on the side pods? Some shots of these non Penske beauties I see hoses on both flanks of the opening.
Now I really do not know if everything that is supposed to be coloured is actually done as it should be. But have left these areas alone and can always go in later and correct things even if not ideal. For example some ref shows the bottom of the side pods as white on a few Mears car shots. Unser had the blue. Looking at what pics I have of the Andretti car, would not surprise me if those bits were red! Unser had Clayton on the nose and the rear of the cowling. Guess the Spiedel logo could go on the cowling too but will hold off until I know. Even the front wing end plate is a mystery. Penske. Diehard or Monroe........? And then maddeningly when Mears drove the all blue job the Gould markings were in a different configuration on the side pods from when he ran with the regular red cowling...
Some thing will come up one day to show me the way. Serves me right for picking an obscure one off again.
Guess it is a good idea to step back for a few days and just then maybe just use the force and crack on....
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Post by raceparke on May 7, 2020 7:11:12 GMT -5
Beautiful!
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Post by Gary Davis on May 7, 2020 13:37:44 GMT -5
Man quattro...like Dan said..."Beautiful". This is coming together faster than mine did for sure. You're doing a great job!
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Post by lance on May 7, 2020 17:13:04 GMT -5
My favorite PC7, Jerry Sneva.  |
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Post by quattro on May 7, 2020 18:47:20 GMT -5
Lance.
What a gem! Me? tempted? Just for a split second.
Being the sponge I am for the moment for everything Indy from the 70's and 80's would very much like to know more. 1981? and what is that lump in the back? Not a history. Just a pointer. I will go off and find out what I can from there.
Went off and read some more about Mr J. Sneva. Interesting anecdotes abound. Sorry to see he has passed.
Maybe it was just the era, but the depth of colourful characters and stories that I have been able to read about, especially to do with the back of the grid stuff, makes the F1 I followed so closely at that time seem a bit sterile and polished, even though there were some quality characters peddling there too.....
Sorry. I know it is a modelling forum and not an Indy or Historical CART forum, but as my Vulcan brothers would say. Fascinating. |
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Post by indy on May 7, 2020 20:55:27 GMT -5
The history fits in great here, never a need to apologize! Looks like you need more kits my friend.
Lance is that a turbo Offy in an Eagle copying modded PC7?
Jordan
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Post by lance on May 7, 2020 22:24:32 GMT -5
A PC7 with a turbo offy.
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Post by quattro on May 8, 2020 3:29:00 GMT -5
I am just scratching the surface here.
Maybe a bit rose tinted given my interest. In my view the F1 I loved back then still had a touch of the old boys club. A bit like 'you can come and play but this is how we do things and eventually we might let you into the club'.
Whilst Indy has its professionalism and traditions I think it was a bit more 'Bring what you have, there is the playground, lets see what you can do'.
Not wanting to start a debate but I think the main difference was Indy provided a stage for opportunity.
This version of the PC 7 is really interesting, but like I said. Only for a split second. You look at it and think it is only lots of flat surfaces that could be cut easily, then you get sensible. Where would one get an Offy turbo in 25th? Guess someone has done it.
There really were so many wonderful incarnations of this thing. AND I see a rad hose in the side pod duct.........
Lance. Sir. If it is your favourite, does that mean you built a replica of it? |
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I just think the more WIPs the better and who cares if several guys are building the same car at once. I love seeing building progress. 