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Post by Art Laski on Oct 16, 2013 11:58:37 GMT -5
I love it Patrick, dookie or not. I say not! you've sculpted it into something very interesting.
-Art
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Post by Calvin on Oct 16, 2013 12:46:31 GMT -5
Calvin, This model is a piece of dookie. How'd you know? LOL Becuase the Lola looks like a March, but the March looks like a Lola, but the Lola that looks like a March really doesn't even look like a March and the March that look like a Lola doesn't actually look like a Lola.  and plus its a bad sign when they are listed on ebay for $5 and never sell. |
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Post by Patrick on Oct 16, 2013 14:34:10 GMT -5
LOL!!
Patrick
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Post by Patrick on Oct 16, 2013 14:50:43 GMT -5
Thanks Jordan. I need to know that kinda stuff. I'm not sure yet how I can incorporate the pop-off valve. I don't see one withe the few photos I have of the Ferrari engine...for example...  Patrick |
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Post by clm1545 on Oct 16, 2013 16:00:20 GMT -5
Looks like they have a valve mount at the front of the intake. I'm not sure if 2 valves mounted under the bodywork would fly with the inspecting team.
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russd
Race Winner
Posts: 482
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Post by russd on Oct 16, 2013 18:45:34 GMT -5
Pat,
I've been working on a version of this car also. Its been on my bench for about 2 years now and I've stalled on the build. One of the problems that I can't seem to figure out is where the heck is the turbo exhaust. I see an air intake on the left hand side of the sidepod near the back wheel. I've seen pictures of the engine installation but I can't make out the place (apparently on the right hand side) where the exhaust should be routed.
Rusty
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Post by indy on Oct 16, 2013 20:24:47 GMT -5
Thanks Jordan. I need to know that kinda stuff. I'm not sure yet how I can incorporate the pop-off valve. I don't see one withe the few photos I have of the Ferrari engine...for example... Patrick So the exhaust exits out the top of the cylinder banks, to the turbo, and then the turbo feeds dual plenums below the cylinder heads!? That's wild! Jordan |
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Post by alterrenner on Oct 17, 2013 16:11:08 GMT -5
the pop-off valve is on the front of the left-side plenum. It was a track-issued valve (rules), so should be in any Indy Car kit. Love the WIP.
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Post by Patrick on Oct 18, 2013 12:08:38 GMT -5
Alterenner,
If the pop-off valve is on the plenum tube, isn't that the exhaust direction(?) and shouldn't the pop-off be on the intake side of the system? I'm so confused. I think I'll check out the turbo set-up for the 156CK Ferrari. I think it used a single turbo set-up also. I need to see how the intercoolers are set up. Thanks for the input guys!
Patrick
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Post by clm1545 on Oct 18, 2013 13:24:05 GMT -5
Patrick,
Think turbo 4 cam Ford. The white pipes on top are the exhaust. The aluminum logs are the intake, notice that the injectors are on that side. The valve is at the front of the aluminum log.
Take Care
Craig
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Post by Patrick on Oct 21, 2013 17:41:55 GMT -5
I've been working on the body work...radiator covers...  and the engine cover...   I really did change it as the white and red plastic shows, but it still looks similar...   Oh well, back to trimming the engine cover interior so the pipes all fit inside. Patrick |
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Post by Patrick on Oct 22, 2013 12:14:36 GMT -5
My research into this engine led me to a French site which discussed the exhaust coming out of the center of the "V" if so then I need to make some adjustments to my set up. I did find this about the intercooler arrangement.  Patrick |
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Post by Patrick on Oct 24, 2013 11:43:43 GMT -5
Grrrrrrrrrrr! The bloody damn engine just won't fit under the engine cover!!!! I trimmed the oil pan off and still it needs a bit more! It will fit, even if I have to trim a hole in the cover! Where's my Dremel tool!
The intercooler cooler problen is close to resolution, tho!
Patrick
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Post by Patrick on Oct 25, 2013 10:52:38 GMT -5
Dang that is a wide engine! I ground through all the way to China I think...  I molded some bumps, perhaps too big but I'll go with them anyway...  the right side is too big...  once puttied in they won't look so bad me thinks...  Well, it is different than the prototype, but as I said racers do change once they get to the track, I guess. Now I can focus on the fine fitting points and the intercooler set up...  Patrick |
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russd
Race Winner
Posts: 482
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Post by russd on Oct 25, 2013 16:39:33 GMT -5
Patrick,
This is basically the same conclusion that I came to. Considering the turbo layout (especially the routing of the exhaust) would have caused the Ferrari engineers to make some modifications to the configuration. As it is, the car was always presented in road coarse spec wings. I'm convinced that IF the car had ever made it to the Speedway it would have looked a bit different than the presentation car.
I plan to make my version into a speedway version (at least put the correct wings on the car). I also plan to reposition the turbo to allow the exhaust to be directed over the transmission (similar to Penske, March and Lola).
Rusty
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Post by Patrick on Oct 26, 2013 0:03:31 GMT -5
Rusty,
I hope you can learn anything from my feeble attempt. Oh, mine will be a speedway version also (I don't think the car would have been seriously campaigned through to the street/road races) .
Patrick
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Post by Patrick on Oct 28, 2013 19:27:48 GMT -5
I'm just grinding the heck outta this beast! I do have a question...did 1986 Indy cars carry batteries on board? The Monogram kit shows one so I'm curious if the regs say so? Photos soon on the mess I've gotten myself into with the correct intercooler-air flow-exhaust system. I shoulda' stuck with the simple set-up and... well you'll see! LOL!
Patrick
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Post by indy on Oct 28, 2013 22:21:12 GMT -5
I don't think a battery was required by regs but probably required to run the engine properly.
Jordan
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Post by Patrick on Oct 28, 2013 22:35:17 GMT -5
Ah...thanks Jordan. As to the progress, here's where we are...  as you can see the system is now good up to the exhausts...now that's sticky because the set I planned to use won't fit under the engine cover, of course. So now we must reach into the infamous "spares box" and find something else. Grrr. I took the valve covers off to clear off the old paint and put fresh paint on.  But, we are progressing ever so slowly, but progressing. I have to finish this thing so I can go on to the "T" cars and the Brabham BT55 project. Patrick PS...I just found a view of the rear end that shows the shock units are mounted at the rear of the suspension and not the forward "A-arms". I'm not going to change that now. Rats. |
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Post by smbrm on Oct 28, 2013 23:30:54 GMT -5
My research into this engine led me to a French site which discussed the exhaust coming out of the center of the "V" if so then I need to make some adjustments to my set up. I did find this about the intercooler arrangement. Patrick Patrick Turbo charged Indy cars do not require the use of intercoolers on the intake air as there is sufficient cooling of the intake charge from the higher latent heat of vaporization of the methanol/ethanol. This not the case with gasoline which is more effective with inter coolers, as gasoline has a lower latent heat of vaporization than alcohol. It would have been unlikely to find charge air inter coolers on the Indy Ferrari. Good research on your part to find what you did about turbocharging, however! Excellent work so far! Stephen |
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Post by Patrick on Oct 29, 2013 11:25:01 GMT -5
Thanks for the info Stephen. I wondered why other Indy cars didn't show intercoolers. Now I know. I based everything on the gasoline Ferrari F1 cars and so (expletive deleted)-umed the 637 needed them also. It is tight under the body panels with little room for water lines now (even after all my grinding!!). As I said in a earlier post...I shoulda gone the easy route! To change would require a retrogression that I don't want to do, but accuracy means..."cut it back"! Hrumph! Back to the work desk and the Xacto! This beast fights me every which way.
Patrick
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Post by Patrick on Nov 2, 2013 19:30:04 GMT -5
I finally put some paint on, waited for it to dry, and put the MOMO decals on. Thanks, Chris! I surveyed some MOMO 333SP photos and came up with this scheme. I'm still having some fit problems with the rear deck, but the turbo system is together without the intercoolers.  still a lot of work to do, but I'm on the downhill leg now. Speed on after the apex! Patrick |
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Post by Calvin on Nov 2, 2013 21:21:17 GMT -5
I love the Rosso Corsa!
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Post by clm1545 on Nov 2, 2013 22:12:05 GMT -5
Great stuff, Patrick.
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Post by sandysixtysfan on Nov 3, 2013 5:26:35 GMT -5
This is just off the chart good!
Sandy
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Post by shunter on Nov 4, 2013 16:22:33 GMT -5
Nice to see this one still continuing....Great subject and enjoying your work.
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Post by jamesharvey on Nov 4, 2013 17:55:14 GMT -5
This is just so interesting to see your research and problem solving. Indy has generated cars like this throughout its history bringing to mind the Ferrari attempts in the 1950s. I hope you get great satisfaction knowing you will have a true one-off that no one else has. Sounds like you have your own IMS Museum.
Thanks for sharing.
Jim
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Post by Patrick on Nov 12, 2013 22:46:10 GMT -5
Small steps forward...    I'm on the home stretch with this baby...pedal to the metal and all that jazz. Patrick |
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Post by indy on Nov 12, 2013 22:52:18 GMT -5
Looks great Patrick!
Jordan
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Post by Calvin on Nov 13, 2013 12:56:18 GMT -5
Almost there! Looking good!
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