1965 Richie Ginther Honda RA262

[drums01]

I have not contributed to the forum builds (open wheel cars) for some time. I thought one of the best ways to get back into the groove is to build one of my favorite models that Tamiya made; the 1965 Honda RA262 (pictures shortly).



In researching the car I see some inconsistencies, such as:

- Some photos of the #11 car are shown with all black wheels, others in black with a silver center cap and rim lip, and another in a solid magnesium color (?). Tamiya chose the black and silver combination.

- The body color while in white, is difficult to determine. Specifically, is it the Tamiya race white, Testers classic or bright white, or? The pictures seem to show just about al three but I am sure it was the photos, lighting, etc.

- The hydraulic cylinders behind the front radiator show both with two and with three (?).

- The rear shock lowers are seen in both red and orange. Tamiya tells me to paint it orange.

- Engine and transmission casing appear in both aluminum silver and the dirty gold color for no better description (?)

- The half shafts appear in photos both black and polished steel (?)

- on real car photos the radiator core body shows in both silver and close to a copper color (?)

- photos show the many fuel lines in either clear, stained yellowish orange from the fuel, and even black (?)

- some show it running both with and without the rear body panels.

- the Tamiya top engine cover as a simple opening but photos show a body color screen in the opening (?)

I'm sure I will find other little things along the way. I also know that this is definitely not the first time this car was featured by one of us in a build (it has been around a long time). I hope to get he colors correct but if anyone has the right ones for the Mexican GP race I would appreciate your input.

This Tamiya kit is in my opinion one of their best castings with regards to detail, molding, and fit in 1/24 scale.

So far I have assembled the basic engine and painted most of the parts, except the body. I have not decided if I am building straight from the box, or if I will detail it with the injector, plug, and brake lines, fittings, etc.; but I am leaning for a simple out of the box car. Stick around, and I hope you enjoy the build. (As said previously, photos soon of the build).

Ben a.k.a. DRUMS01

[Patrick]

I'm sure you mean 1/20!

Patrick

[drums01]

YUP, 1/20, not 1:24..... good catch

[drums01]

here it is (WIP)....

I love this engine, it is a little gem. Some, but not all of the paint detailing is done.



I am keeping the wheels as shown on the box (black with the silver cap and wheel lip). I used a silver marker to color the lip and it came out with no marks or crooked edges. The end result is a fine satin (not chrome) silver. The tread was sanded lightly for a worn-in appearance.



The remaining pictures are some of the detailing already done:

[indydog]

Here's a shot of the car in the Honda Museum:



Note the black shafts, orange shocks and the gold color of the trans.

The fuel lines were clear when new:

[drums01]

The restored car has many items different from the car in 1965. For instance; the tranny casing in 65 was aluminum versus the gold. The shock top mounts and adjustment rings below the springs were polished bright aluminum here they are black. The heat shield for the fuel injection originally was only bare aluminum and on the restored car it is part orange and part aluminum. The half shafts on the restored car are black but in the early years were polished bare metal.

There was a #10, 11, 12, 22, 26, etc. I am finding it important to validate the car number, and time period of each photo. It is my understanding that the restored car is the correct chassis but there are many parts from the other survivors that were used to restore it. Here are some of the 1965 #11 period I have found:

Looking at this photo, the race day #11 shocks appear to be bare metal:



In this photo of the restored car, the axle shafts are polished steel and not black as in your museum photo (?):



Here is a race day view of the fuel lines (color):



Here are two funny photos; the first picture shows their "ingenuity" for an overflow bottle (Coke can) back in the period, versus the pretty plastic one in the museum car:



And I am pretty sure this would not be allowed by todays standards





Those are wonderful pictures though and still provide more clarity on other things; thanks for sharing.

[racerbrown]

that last picture is hilarious!
duane

[drums01]

Progress....

I decided to make this a box stock replica (no extra P.E. or aftermarket details)



I did drill out the four exhaust tips, but other than that, it is nothing more than detail painted from the box.



Hope ya'll like it. Until next update.....

[drums01]

And here are some more vintage pictures:

Richie and the car


Another view of the flying monkeys:


Is this a Corner Worker without flags, a fireman, or a close-up photo journalist?:


Detailed drawing of RA272, check out the remarks:

[drums01]

Next post will show the finished rear suspension.....

Also notice the car numbers as Richie drove Honda numbers 7, 10, 11, 12, 14, 18, 20, 22, and 26 in his career. He also drive for other manufacturers; but his only win was in the #11 at Mexico (Honda's first win as a manufacturer). He was also a editor for the movie Grand Prix....

[drums01]

More progress...

[Patrick]

Ya-hoo! 1/20 looks very good! I'll keep my 1/24, however!


Patrick

[Art Laski]

That looks like a heck of a box-stock model! It's coming out nicely.

-Art

[Michael Chriss]

Looking good!

[drums01]

I just now noticed that I put this under the wrong timeline of F1 cars.

Here are my last pic, calling this one D-O-N-E....

[racerbrown]

beautiful!
i wish mine turned out this well.
duane

[drums01]

Thanks Duane.

I have another of this kit which I will eventually hyper drtail and share in the Custom WIP forum.

[indy]

Good looking build, I have one of these barely started in my closet. Wish mine turns out that good if I get back to it.

Jordan

PS. Thread has been moved :-)

[dustymojave]

I know this thread isn't the latest and I'm putting in my $.02 a little on the late side. But I might be able to provide some enlightenment regarding some of the questions that arose during the course of this thread.

The model has come out beautiful.

I dealt many times in person with Richie Ginther when I was an SCCA Tech Inspector and track worker and Richie was running the Porsche Factory USA race team. (Tech Inspectors have little work to do while the cars are racing on the track, so I did Wreck Impounds, Crash Recovery and sometimes Corner Flagging during the racing.) But we never discussed his participation with the Honda F1 team. So I can't offer any advice based on having known the man. I know some other stories, but not about the Honda Team. However, I grew up involved in the technical side of road racing sports cars. And have made a living for many years building and restoring road race cars. So I have knowledge to share.

1st, I want to point out that race cars are a constant work in progress. How a given car arrives at a track for a certain event may very well NOT be the way the car LEAVES the track after the event. So, even if you find a photo of say, the left rear shock, taken at the 1965 Monaco GP during qualifying...another photo taken during the race may well show a different shock than before.

Now...The orange color on the shocks...Is it Orange? Or is it red? Answer is that it's probably Koni shock orange on some of the shocks used by the team. Koni shocks were typically, but not always painted on the body an orangey color that is close to 1960s Chevy engine red. That is between red and orange in true color. So that is part of why some photos show it as orange and some show it as red. Spring adjustment rings are overall silver in color, not partly painted as shown. The adjuster threads on the shock body are not likely to have paint on them as the act of installing the rings would scrape the paint off the threads. Adjusting them wears the paint off even more.

Having built a few museum restorations, I can speak from personal experience that such are quite often "wrong" in many ways. Often modern owners of vintage race cars were not around when the vintage race car was being raced. In fact, MOST ALL new owners weren't around then. They were most probably little kids at the time with no involvement in auto racing if they are even THAT old. AND...Being the OWNER or museum manager, they generally insist that things be done the way THEY think it should be done. Many builders, mechanics, fabricators were also not around back then and guess, or try to figure out based on old photos how things were done in the day. Or more often, they do things how they would do them now, without consideration of how they were back when. These are things I encountered (I'm now retired) all the time working in the industry.

Note that the axle half shafts show different finish in photos taken by different people at different times on the same car at the same museum. Note also the extreme ride height. Like the car is on a jack. Somebody doesn't know how high the car SHOULD sit. So it's topped out and not looking right in the museum.

The overflow bottle in the museum is a modern piece manufactured for the purpose. The Coke can is a fix to a problem found at the track.

The norm in restoring old race cars is to choose a moment in the car's history that is considered the most significant. Since this car's most significant moment was winning the Mexico City GP in 1965. 1st GP win for Richie Ginther. 1st GP win for Honda. 1st GP win for Goodyear tires. So that is the obvious choice for the Museum restoration and for most model builders as well.

The comment about the monkeys... Note that the FIA did not require seat belts on race cars or adequate roll bars at the time. Not even for F1 cars. Be sure to not install seat belts in this or any other F1 car model of the era. SCCA DID require such safety equipment in that era, so If building a model of an SCCA race car, USAC Indy car, Sprint Car, NASCAR, etc...Include appropriate safety gear for the era.

F1 cars ALL changed numbers often at the time. NOBODY kept one particular number for multiple races. Repeat numbers are more chance occurrence than by team designation.

Master cylinders: 2 says 1 clutch and 1 brake. 3 says 1 clutch and 2 brake, 1 front and 1 rear. One of those situations may be right for one point in time, another for a different point in time. only worry about it if you have photographic evidence of the car at the time you are trying to build the model to that shows that aspect of the car.

I believe the gear box casing was cast magnesium. As cast is fine for the most part. In very moist climates, magnesium will corrode very rapidly. So that may have become a problem and the gearbox got a coating for some events or simply later in the season. Or maybe later in it's life.

The fuel lines color...brand new empty clear vinyl lines will look totally clear. Gasoline is not totally clear. Various fuels have various colors. Some reddish and some orange, green, blue, even purple, etc. Clear vinyl fuel line turns yellowish and continues to darken the longer it's exposed to contact with fuel. After a while blue gas in an older line will look brown. Black fuel line at the time is probably rubber, so flat or semi gloss black. Possibly black vinyl, so gloss black.

Radiator cores in British race cars (where most F1 cars in the 60s were built, and still are now) at the time were almost ALWAYS made of brass. A brass radiator in this car may have been showing British influence. A silver color radiator may be an aluminum one. Far more sensible.

With or without rear body panels? See my description above about works in progress.