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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 1:21:47 GMT -5
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Post by indycals on Jan 25, 2015 2:06:08 GMT -5
Sweet - I love this car too. The first pic, that is a Lotus 56 - is that what the wedge was made from?
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Post by smbrm on Jan 25, 2015 2:16:35 GMT -5
Yes, the Super Wedge was based on the Lotus 56 design, probably a cloned chassis.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 2:29:25 GMT -5
I came across these, pretty much sets things straight.   |
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Post by indycals on Jan 25, 2015 2:43:44 GMT -5
That would make sense that it was a Lotus copy as there were only 4 Lotus 56's built and they are all currently accounted for - #20, 60 and 70 all restored to race day configuration last year, and #30 is the 56B that ran in Formula 1 and was at IMS last May.
The copies could also explain the 'fifth' Lotus 56 turbine that was on premises last year.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 3:26:38 GMT -5
That is most likely the case, the history of the turbines has several versions and questions depending on who you talk to, the copies cloud it up even more. I tend to go with the latest restored cars that were at the track last May.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 3:30:53 GMT -5
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Post by racerbrown on Jan 25, 2015 9:13:14 GMT -5
wow!
great pictures and a great history lesson to go along with it.
duane
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Post by Patrick on Jan 25, 2015 13:59:07 GMT -5
The obscure cars are always favorites of mine. Winners are nice, but the cars that fill the grids will always hold my interest the best, like this beast.
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Post by indycals on Jan 25, 2015 14:30:29 GMT -5
The obscure cars are always favorites of mine. Winners are nice, but the cars that fill the grids will always hold my interest the best, like this beast. Technically the wedge didn't even fill the grid  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 19:21:43 GMT -5
It is interesting from a "where are they now" standpoint. I think it is safe to say at this point that Andrew Ferguson's book, Team Lotus, The Indy Cars, is shot full of holes. Someone didn't do their homework. Mr. Ferguson was dead before it ever went to print (and I have first hand knowledge as I had pre-ordered the book from Classic Motorbooks at the time)
What we do know is Granatelli built a couple of copies. I am sure a Lotus expert, i.e. someone who is well versed in Teams fabrication techniques, could spot the copies in less than five minutes. Especially if cloned in a time frame. Your going to cut corners technique wise just to save labor. And Lotus was English! You know they had some goofy fabrication signatures that did not transfer over to the copies.
Parnelli has also made mention of cloning a couple of cars, which murks the waters even more. I would say as late as 1975 or so these chassis's were considered worthless. Some enterprising car "nut" could have concentrated their efforts to faking a number plate and time would only strengthen what ever claim was to come. These Parnelli fabricated copies would also be easy to identify by the right people.
Side note. Having been to Goodwins shop several times over the past 20 years, and seeing Lotus 38's bare next to Lola's of the same vintage, it is apparent to Me that Lotus's were welded up by blind men, and they used torch and rod, not electric welders. Rivet patterns and sizes, along with the method of boxing in areas such as suspension mounting points are all going to have the same "signature." Give time with the cars I would bet money Walter Goodwin could figure out a copy from a real one.
I saw Mike Spence's wreck on the back of a flatbed truck later in the afternoon that he crashed. It was sitting in the parking lot behind Gasoline Alley. It was pretty screwed up, as the tire had done some real damage to the right side of the car. If this car is the one claimed to be sent back to Team, it was no doubt "de skinned" when converted to the ill attempted F1 turbine car. This was a common practice with monocoque construction, as bulkheads are the holy grail of the manufacturing process. If you can save them, building the skin around them is a common task for the right metal fabricator. I can see this happening.
SO the definative answer from this quarter would be the letter from the Chrysler systems engineer. He posted somewhere as to what he saw and what he worked on. The "SuperWedge" in both configurations were the Granatelli copies.
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Post by indycals on Jan 25, 2015 20:06:11 GMT -5
Re the Lotus 56s - Clive Chapman was at Indy last year and he seemed pretty comfortable in the fact that the restored turbines were the actual cars they were restored to. I did ask him about the #30 -> 56B F1 car and he confirmed it. This also further confirms the Wedge = Lotus copies statement.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 20:10:08 GMT -5
For the record, Granatelli built 2 copies and Parnelli built 2, only one is likely accounted for, that being the one owned by a guy in Avon In. He has in the past claimed it to be the Leonard car but I think that is mostly wishfull thinking on his part.
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Post by harveythedog2 on Jan 25, 2015 21:13:34 GMT -5
Cool pics and awesome information guys. I have another photo of the car that Sam Posey drove somewhere. I will try to dig it out.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 21:48:25 GMT -5
I love the unusual cars of this era. Keep them coming. Lance, feel free to make them. I will buy!!
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Post by alterrenner on Jan 26, 2015 6:20:55 GMT -5
Incredible!!
--Frank
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Post by trevor83 on Jan 26, 2015 9:37:46 GMT -5
For the record, Granatelli built 2 copies and Parnelli built 2, only one is likely accounted for, that being the one owned by a guy in Avon In. He has in the past claimed it to be the Leonard car but I think that is mostly wishfull thinking on his part. Here is the Avon guy's car avonaero.com/STP%20CAR.htm |
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Post by harveythedog2 on Mar 31, 2016 6:19:01 GMT -5
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Post by lance on Apr 1, 2016 12:17:34 GMT -5
These are great shots Stu, thanks for finding and posting them!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2016 15:56:47 GMT -5
Think of all the money they spent on this car......
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Post by racerbrown on Apr 1, 2016 17:04:00 GMT -5
Think of all the money they spent on this car...... ouch! i'd rather not. no doubt they did their share to help the economy back then. duane |
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Post by 2lapsdown on Apr 1, 2016 19:59:11 GMT -5
I just saw a picture of the Enzo Ferrari and the front of that car looks a lot like the front of the Super Wedge.
John
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