Super Tex's '61 winner

[Deleted]

I was talking with Hugh (smokeycars) today and we were discussing this car. In the INDY Museum, it has a dark red nose and numbers. All the decals done have bright red nose and numbers. I trust our decal makers, and I have found that INDY car decals seem to be MUCH more correct than the Dark Side NASCAR decals, but did the Museum redo it wrong?

Which is the correct color?

Thanks!
Mongo

[indycals]

Well, as someone who makes decals for that car, the GOOD photos I've seen of the era indicate it was bright, non-metallic red. We do know that the car in the museum is wrong on many levels.

Some excellent photos are in Joe Scalzo's Roadster book - page 89, page 91 (the 1962 variant), and page 96. The photo on page 89 is so good that you can see that the white stripe between the red and the black is BRIGHTER than the rest of the car, which is pearl white. Page 100 has a pic of the 64 car that also indicates bright red (as have other good photos I've seen). And for anyone who disagrees with me, don't let that stop you from using my decals - the red can be easily trimmed away to reveal any paint color you may choose ;-)

[Deleted]

Mike;

As a loyal customer and fellow Foyt Fan, no one can argue with your decals for any of Foyt's four winning cars. They are great! I have spent many hours discussing this with our good friend and master, Bob Clidinst. The Watson in the Hall of Fame Museum is awful on many points......wrong nose, wrong hood, wrong color...It's not even the same car Foyt drove in 61! The color is all wrong! One thing about older color photos....seeing as red is the prominent color on color film.....every thing that is red in the photo goes to bright red, especially day-glo red which goes on most photos to fire-engine red. Bob says, the red on the 1961 Winner was red.....peroid, The 64 winner it was candy-apple red. I'll take Bob's word over anyone elses....He was there for crying out loud and he's forgotten more than most of us will ever know on the subject.

Best to you and keep up the good work!

Russ

[Deleted]

OOPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I mis-spoke, the car in the Museum isn't supposed to be a Watson...it's supposed to be a Watson Copy built by Floyd Trevis...Just the same...It's wrong! Also...one thing that most people miss on the 1961 Winner that Lloyd Asbury pointed out to me....The notch on the rear Fin off the Head rest down the back of the car...Very prominent on the photo by Bob Tronolone on page 29 of Scalzo's book....It's about a foot up from the nerf bar...you can see it in the color photo on page 89 too. No other Watson or Watson copy had that notch but Foyt's 61 car.

Best to you

Russ

[indycals]

Hi Russ... I would accept Candy Apple Red for the 64 car. Candy apple would be very hard to differentiate in photos of the time - you would need an exceptional quality photo.

As a photographer I've learned not to trust any one photo for accurate color, four color process printing mucks things up even more. Conversely I've also learned how to read a variety of photos of the same subject to come to a pretty accurate conclusion as to what the true color should be. Glad to see that Bob the expert agrees with me about the 61 car ;-)

Here's a tip for everybody as to how to differentiate dayglo red from red. The key is the black and white photos! In the 60s red photographed very dark in b&w. Dayglo red on the other hand photographed very light. A perfect example of this is page 56 of the Scalzo book - a black and white of Wards 59 winner which we know had dayglo red on the nose and roll bar, and a red stripe down the side. In the photo the red stripe is almost black, while the nose and the roll bar are medium grey. Now this only works for images shot in black and white - if the image was shot in color and converted to black and white dayglo red will look as dark as regular red - the reason being is that film can't capture dayglo red, so it reproduces it as red, and when converted to black and white it converts the same as red. An example of this can be seen in Andy Granatelli's "They Call Me Mr. 500"; Jim Clark's Lotus looks very dark - it was originally shot in color.

[Deleted]

Hi Mike, Russ, and all,

Thanks for pointing out the errors of the '61 car i nthe Museum. I knw from DArk Side NASCAR projects to not trust *restorations*. I like the bright red much better than the darker red, anyway!

Not trying to disprove your decals, Mike, I just didn't know the whole story of the Museum car.

BTW: Mike, what color paint do you suggest to use to match the decals you print (and I just received! ;D ) for this car ? Tamiya TS8?

Thanks!
Mongo

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One of my favorite photos from 61!



Sachs and Foyt were like this for the last half of the 61 500! If you don't have Doak Ewing's video of this 500. it's a must! Great footage of a great 500!

Best to you

Russ

[Deleted]

The day after....



The color and the notch...



A Bob Tronolone shot from the race that shows the notch on the tail. Dean Jefferies painted the car and was really keen with pin-stripes....I'm going to build this one soon

Best to you

Russ

[Deleted]

Hi Michael (Indycals)! What color do you suggest for matching your decals (nose)??

Thanks!
Mongo

[indycals]

Feb 1, 2009 13:46:56 GMT -5 @ancientmodeler said:

Hi Michael (Indycals)! What color do you suggest for matching your decals (nose)??

Thanks!
Mongo

Tamiya Italian Red TS8 (not to be confused with Testors Italian red which is really orange).

[Deleted]

Feb 1, 2009 16:56:41 GMT -5 indycals said:

Feb 1, 2009 13:46:56 GMT -5 @ancientmodeler said:

Hi Michael (Indycals)! What color do you suggest for matching your decals (nose)??

Thanks!
Mongo

Tamiya Italian Red TS8 (not to be confused with Testors Italian red which is really orange).

Hi Michael,

Thanks, I have a part of a can of TS8 left. (I have to mail order any Tamiya paints, no Hobby Shop with in an hour of me!)

I hope to get it done using some parts from Dr. Dave and some other creative work.

Thanks, again!
Mongo