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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2011 16:42:21 GMT -5
I believe that if you read page two of the "Paper Wasp" plans from Rod & Custom where they would have been able to talk with Ray Harroun back in 1965 and they state that in his memory the car was panted a "dark orange" and that the wasp name was due to the shape of the tail. There are several items that make me question the authenticity of the restoration at the IMS museum one being both the size and difference in font style of the numbers on the grill and body (black with white trim on the body and black with body color trim on the grill), another the under engine tray/pan that was not in use at the time of the race, and the continued use of black tires where the original were unquestionably white. Note too that there was an odd arrangement of cutouts around the wheel mounting lugs on the front wheel filler disk and possibly the rims were body color as well.  Of course the final choice has to be up to each of us, these are just my criterion for an orange car and a more accurate look. Happy Modeling! John |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2011 10:53:52 GMT -5
It's a long shot, but I wonder if the newspaper (Indianapolis Star, I think?) has archives that go back that far? If so, maybe the article on the race has some kind of color reference! Like I said, a lobg shot at best!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2011 10:55:36 GMT -5
I believe that if you read page two of the "Paper Wasp" plans from Rod & Custom where they actually were able to talk with Ray Harroun back in 1962 and they stat that in his memory the car was panted a "dark orange" and that the wasp name was due to the shape of the tail. This is where I remember seeing "burnt orange" mentioned as the Wasp color. Not sure I've seem it anywhere else, though. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2011 16:54:08 GMT -5
I needed to chek my sources, so the actual quote is...
“It now rests in the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Museum, painted a bilious shade of yellow, but the original color as Harroun remembers it was an off orange with black numbers and white outline. The name “WASP” was derived solely from the shape of the tail and not the supposed color or any remark about ‘Yellow Jacket’.”
It is my assumption (I know what that means) from the statement that the writers were able to confirm their color choice based on actualy talking with Ray since he was still living at the time. (I stand corrected) 1965 and Ray passed in 1968.
Either way, Happy Modeling!
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Post by 11rowsof3 on Apr 7, 2012 10:51:43 GMT -5
I think the color in the museum is probably only slightly inaccurate and think Ray's comment was taken too literal. More like he remembers the yellow with more of a burnt orange hue to it (not that it was actually orange). It DID have white Firestone tires though (not black) but they are impossible to reproduce for a reasonable cost and they get really, really dirty.  PS - this is another excuse for me to post one of my favorite videos. |
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Post by jamesharvey on Apr 7, 2012 14:13:54 GMT -5
For years there was a 500 memoriabilia shop on West 16th amost to Lynhurst. I stopped there once and he was selling someone's collection. It included a custom built 1911 Marmon Wasp made out of balsa and cardboard. The wheels/tires are wood. This is only model I have seen of this car. Somewhat rough in places but I have left it alone. The IMS car has been yellow since it was placed in the museum.
Jim
Jim
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Post by SWT500 on Apr 7, 2012 22:10:13 GMT -5
That shop was owned and operated by Frank Gilbert. He lived in the back and his store in the front. It closed about three years ago.
I've posed this color question to Donald Davidson and will post his comments when I receive them.
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Post by 11rowsof3 on Apr 23, 2012 12:39:45 GMT -5
Interesting, here in the Marmon Model 32... that Marmon chose the #32 for to promote...  |
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Post by SWT500 on Apr 23, 2012 14:16:05 GMT -5
Donald Davidson reported to me that in the early 50s, the Wasp was being restored. Harroun, at that time, reportedly approved the color choice describing the car as he remembered it. I must say the photos above make for a very persuasive case.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2012 14:47:25 GMT -5
OK, I am getting more open minded on the subject. This past holiday season I was given a book entitled "Blood and Smoke, A True Tale of Mystery, Mayhem, and the Birth of the Indy 500" (Marvelous book in many respects and a must read for 500 fans.) The author, Charles Leerhsen, states that the Marmon 32 #32 "Wasp" was originally painted the Marmon company trademark color, Yellow. However the 32 #32 was campaigned throughout the previous year’s racing season and up to the running of the first 500. So here is a theory that may explain some of the discrepancy in color. With the knowledge that these early cars consumed and leaked oil like a sieve, kind of like Jacques Villeneuve’s Williams in the1996 Australian GP. I recall that it was hard to tell that Damon Hill’s Williams was ever white and blue by the end of the race. It is conceivable therefore that the oil soaked yellow paint of the Wasp had, by the end of a season and a half turned a rather “burnt orange” hue by the time the 500 was run. Even now it takes on some of that color where oil and grease have soaked the paint. This could satisfy us all and allow each to finish the car to their own satisfaction.   Present day oil and fule tank in the Wasp.   These last two photos are thanks to the Professor! |
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Post by Patrick on May 5, 2012 16:12:42 GMT -5
That theory does make a lot of sense!
Patrick
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2012 12:02:29 GMT -5
As a testament to the grunge factor, notice in the former black and white photo how dirty the "white" tires had gotten even before the race. (I am making the assumption that this photo was taken before the start.) Still that is no excuse for putting black tires on the car. :-)
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Post by 11rowsof3 on May 9, 2012 13:53:45 GMT -5
OK, I am getting more open minded on the subject. This past holiday season I was given a book entitled "Blood and Smoke, A True Tale of Mystery, Mayhem, and the Birth of the Indy 500" (Marvelous book in many respects and a must read for 500 fans.) The author, Charles Leerhsen, states that the Marmon 32 #32 "Wasp" was originally painted the Marmon company trademark color, Yellow. However the 32 #32 was campaigned throughout the previous year’s racing season and up to the running of the first 500. So here is a theory that may explain some of the discrepancy in color. With the knowledge that these early cars consumed and leaked oil like a sieve, kind of like Jacques Villeneuve’s Williams in the1996 Australian GP. I recall that it was hard to tell that Damon Hill’s Williams was ever white and blue by the end of the race. It is conceivable therefore that the oil soaked yellow paint of the Wasp had, by the end of a season and a half turned a rather “burnt orange” hue by the time the 500 was run. Even now it takes on some of that color where oil and grease have soaked the paint. This could satisfy us all and allow each to finish the car to their own satisfaction. Present day oil and fule tank in the Wasp. These last two photos are thanks to the Professor! Not read it yet, but I know Donald Davidson is no fan. |
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Post by 11rowsof3 on May 9, 2012 13:54:36 GMT -5
OK, I am getting more open minded on the subject. This past holiday season I was given a book entitled "Blood and Smoke, A True Tale of Mystery, Mayhem, and the Birth of the Indy 500" (Marvelous book in many respects and a must read for 500 fans.) The author, Charles Leerhsen, states that the Marmon 32 #32 "Wasp" was originally painted the Marmon company trademark color, Yellow. However the 32 #32 was campaigned throughout the previous year’s racing season and up to the running of the first 500.... Not read it yet, but I know Donald Davidson is no fan. |
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Post by SWT500 on May 9, 2012 14:23:29 GMT -5
I enjoyed the book, believe all the conspiracy theories or not. For me, it was a wonderful depiction of the life and times of racers back then, so it served a useful purpose. You are right that DD does not like it. I just looked around all that to visualize what it was like back then. If they could only invent the time machine...
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Post by 11rowsof3 on May 9, 2012 21:22:42 GMT -5
I enjoyed the book, believe all the conspiracy theories or not. For me, it was a wonderful depiction of the life and times of racers back then, so it served a useful purpose. You are right that DD does not like it. I just looked around all that to visualize what it was like back then. If they could only invent the time machine... I am with you. Life was a lot harder back then... BUT a ton more adventurous, free and fun it seems. I am 39 so born in 1972... but I am mostly interested in things that happened before I was born for some reason. Space program, test pilots, 50's/60's Indy 500.... |
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Post by Patrick on May 10, 2012 0:40:08 GMT -5
That' because it is truly the Golden Age no matter what our interests!
Patrick
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