Houston

[Calvin]

EDIT: I went ahead and just changed it to the Houston thread

I still dont like standing starts!

Its bull!!!! Its not F1

They will stall and crash everytime.

[billj]

I bet that was exactly what Hinch was saying! Overall a good race. Nice to see the finish. Tomorrow may be a different race.

I had to totally agree with A.J. in his pre-race talk. The way he worked his way in, along with most of the drivers back in the day, was quite different to how it's done today. I still like the tough man days better!

[indy]

Bad day for Helio...

Jordan

[Calvin]

Oct 5, 2013 22:04:34 GMT -5 indy said:

Bad day for Helio...

Jordan

Yeah, I hope he can hold on for his first championship.

Good run for Simona!

[indy]

I was happy for her. She's proven tough.

How about those blisters on Servia's hands - yikes!!

Jordan

[jamesharvey]

I realize the decision was made to go with drive-by-wire technology but there have been problems all year getting cars in gear, restarting, etc. I know these accidents occurred when there was a manual shift lever but I wonder... Sorry for the #27; he needed a good run in order to help with a ride next year. Wonder who is going to fill the Vasser seat? Looking forward to today.
Jim

[Calvin]

Not good.....

[Calvin]

Sounds like Dario is OK......well not OK but not hurt badly. But the spectator deal is not good....

[racerbrown]

definitely a scary deal.
damn street courses - nowhere to go when you have trouble like that.
duane

[Deleted]

AMEN RACERBROWN..................Those like street courses, are not true "race" fan that get what get.

Russ

[indy]

Seeing a report that Dario's got two broken vertebrae, broken ankle, and a concussion. All but 2 fans were treated at the track. Really would love an update on the fans. IndyCar doesn't need any drivers dying but we really need to not kill spectators.

Sounds like Dario will miss Fontana with these injuries. I would imagine Chip would find a sub for the one race instead of parking the car. Would be nice for the nod to go to a yank like Hildebrand.

Jordan

[trevor83]

Hildebrand is already signed up with BHA for Fontana. Maybe Tagliani or Daly? I thought of Munoz and Briscoe but both sound set to drive for Chevy teams next year. Not sure how that would go over driving a Honda in two weeks. I believe Servia is driving for Panther at Fontana.

[Calvin]

Kurt Busch!

[Art Laski]

Oct 6, 2013 22:39:07 GMT -5 trevor83 said:

Hildebrand is already signed up with BHA for Fontana. Maybe Tagliani or Daly? I thought of Munoz and Briscoe but both sound set to drive for Chevy teams next year. Not sure how that would go over driving a Honda in two weeks. I believe Servia is driving for Panther at Fontana.

Not sure how big a factor that would be when Dixon will be a Chevy driver next year too!

[Patrick]

How about Calvin? He IS "the Machine" and he already knows the lines of the car!

Street races can be ok, but that catch fencing was really the problem. It didn't stay where it was designed to stay. Monaco is the only "real" street race and nothing like that accident has occurred there (knock on carbon fiber). I'm glad Dario is sorta ok. It was a bad one.

I do have a sponsorship question...how can the BSA sponsor an Indy car? Where do the Boy Scouts get that kinda money?

Patrick

[clm1545]

When I saw the crash, all I could think about was the crash Jeff Krosnoff had in 1996 at Toronto. Glad to see that Dario did not go into the fence topside first.
If I was Dario, I would have had the ambulance stop at a store on the way to the hospital so that I could buy a lottery ticket, he got real lucky.
Once more, Penske is inventing ways to lose the championship at the end of the season. They seem to have lost all the magic they once had.
If Andretti stays with Chevy next year, you can kiss Honda goodbye IMO.
If the street racing we have seen this year is the future of Indycar, and it seems to be, I will pass. I have better things to do with my weekends. The success of any enterprise, in the end, depends on the product, and IMO this product doesn't smell very good.
Take Care
Craig

[indy]

One thing I really liked about the Houston track was how wide they spaced the walls so that cars had room to race abreast more. I agree with JR Hildebrand's thoughts that if they would pull those curbs back more to increase the speeds in the turns, it could be a really improve the racing at this temporary circuit.

Jordan

[mjjracer]

Oct 7, 2013 13:43:01 GMT -5 clm1545 said:

When I saw the crash, all I could think about was the crash Jeff Krosnoff had in 1996 at Toronto. Glad to see that Dario did not go into the fence topside first.
If I was Dario, I would have had the ambulance stop at a store on the way to the hospital so that I could buy a lottery ticket, he got real lucky.
Once more, Penske is inventing ways to lose the championship at the end of the season. They seem to have lost all the magic they once had.
If Andretti stays with Chevy next year, you can kiss Honda goodbye IMO.
If the street racing we have seen this year is the future of Indycar, and it seems to be, I will pass. I have better things to do with my weekends. The success of any enterprise, in the end, depends on the product, and IMO this product doesn't smell very good.
Take Care
Craig

I have to agree with most of what you say, Craig. I haven't finished watching the 2nd race but of course the crash was on the local news - and the lead in was something like "horrible crash involving spectators at the Indy 500" Huh? Typical. No results of course.

I have to say I think Honda, from what I read, is in for at least the next few years. But they sorely want a third engine supplier, and that may be what causes them to leave. Also, I have to think Chevy will be dropping some teams and perhaps Honda will pick them up, or, as you said, sign up Andretti. None of the remainning Honda teams (possibly excepting the Schmidt Pagenaud car) are really consistant front line teams, so they may want to dangle a carrot in front of one of the big three, and I don't think Penske will switch. So, it's Andretti.

I have to say about street races, you really need to be there. Often not good for TV, though often some ovals and natural courses are not good. Too much carnage on street courses, but the event can be an awesome venue like Long Beach where the experience is part of the whole race weekend. Bottom line though, is city street racing puts seats in the seats and can provide tangible returns for the city and its bank account. I personally think there is often great racing at street courses, especially mid-pack, but the wrecks and yellows really kill the buzz. I think they need cranes like in F1 to remove the cars and keep local yellows. IMHO.

I know there is always the debate on more ovals vs. more road/street races. I personally love them both. I grew up as a young kid as a sports car and road racing fan, because of familial influence. Then in '63 I listened to the 500 on the radio and was hooked on it. I dunno, maybe fans are like some drivers: it's easier for a road racer to become an oval ace, than vice versa.

I thought there was some good racing (and some bad) in the first Houston, but as happens on ovals as well, pit stop timing and yellow flags change everything, sometimes for the worse. A showdown of Dixon and Power would have been a great finish.

I love Indycars, and I'd probably watch them race in a shopping mall. I will continue to watch until such time they go away and are replaced at the 500 by "Stock Curs". Then I'll just go to sprint & midget races and continue to enjoy real racers.

Sorry, way longer than I planned.
MJ

[billj]

I'm not a huge fan of the street courses but I can sure see why IndyCar would want to have them. All they have to do is talk some city into hosting a race and work out the details. It is way, way cheaper than designing and building a race track. If it goes wrong, just leave it off the schedule next year.

The cars have gotten too dependent on aero enhancements and they are too fast for most ovals. I remember the first few races at Phoenix International Raceway, a mile track. I recall them being short, time wise. Imagine a 200 mile race on a mile oval today, it would be over in less than 2 hours. So, I also get the road course model.

I really think the economics are a major factor when it comes to street courses. Probably here to stay.

[IndyCarModels]

BSA do not pay a dime for sponsorship on the Wilson car. As a youth Dale Coyne  enjoyed being a Boy Scout and since he doesn't have any sponsors on  that car, he  uses the Boy Scouts. This is what I was told last May when I was at the Speedway.
TerryB.

[mjjracer]

Oct 8, 2013 10:18:21 GMT -5 IndyCarModels said:

BSA do not pay a dime for sponsorship on the Wilson car. As a youth Dale Coyne  enjoyed being a Boy Scout and since he doesn't have any sponsors on  that car, he  uses the Boy Scouts. This is what I was told last May when I was at the Speedway.
TerryB.

I have a feeling that is true, in that the team is used as a donation/recruitment tool, and they receive a portion of what is brought in. Like Gordon's End Hunger deal in Nascar - seeing that more and more.

MJ

[vintagerpm]

Found out why the fencing broke free in this morning's (or was it yesterday's?) Houston Chronicle. A spectator told a reporter that there were no cables through fencing. These cables tie the fences together, so that if one moves, the others hold it in place. Wonder if this was the "safety issue" that kept the spectator gates closed until 10:20. Did they just decide they didn't need them?

[Patrick]

The catch fencing issue is criminal negligence IMO. Haven't we come so far with safety as to not securely hold the fencing in place? It is safety of the drivers and spectators at issue here and the sanctioning body should know that! Again, IMO.

Patrick
PS, I used to attend SCCA races in the 60s with only hay bales separating the racers and me. It was very loud/cool, however.

[chromehorn08]

Oct 8, 2013 20:42:20 GMT -5 Patrick said:

The catch fencing issue is criminal negligence IMO. Haven't we come so far with safety as to not securely hold the fencing in place? It is safety of the drivers and spectators at issue here and the sanctioning body should know that! Again, IMO.

Patrick
PS, I used to attend SCCA races in the 60s with only hay bales separating the racers and me. It was very loud/cool, however.

In Miller's most recent mailbag for Racer Mag....he said the fencing used at Houston was FIA approved fencing.

[vintagerpm]

Oct 9, 2013 12:02:16 GMT -5 chromehorn08 said:

In Miller's most recent mailbag for Racer Mag....he said the fencing used at Houston was FIA approved fencing.

The fencing may be approved, but it still needs to be tied together.

[Patrick]

Oct 9, 2013 15:31:06 GMT -5 vintagerpm said:

Oct 9, 2013 12:02:16 GMT -5 chromehorn08 said:

In Miller's most recent mailbag for Racer Mag....he said the fencing used at Houston was FIA approved fencing.

The fencing may be approved, but it still needs to be tied together.

Exactly!

Patrick

[indy]

Oct 6, 2013 20:56:33 GMT -5 indy said:

I would imagine Chip would find a sub for the one race instead of parking the car.

Tags gets the nod from Chip for Fontana. Good for Tags, I hope he shows well.

Jordan

[chromehorn08]

Oct 9, 2013 15:31:06 GMT -5 vintagerpm said:

Oct 9, 2013 12:02:16 GMT -5 chromehorn08 said:

In Miller's most recent mailbag for Racer Mag....he said the fencing used at Houston was FIA approved fencing.

The fencing may be approved, but it still needs to be tied together.

Everything was tied together. It broke off where the post meets the barrier. Which is exactly where Dario hit, right at the post at more than 100 mph.

[chromehorn08]

Take that back...just saw fan footage. No tethers. Regardless everyone is ok. That's all that matters. Even if they were can't stop all the debris people still would have got hurt. You can point to many other incidents were fencing was tethered and fans still got injured. Its not a street course issue its a racing issue. Most injuries to fans have occurred on ovals. Until the powers that be come up with something else its going to keep happening. IMS developed the safer barrier they can comeup with the safer fencing! Hopefully they're brainstorming now!

[professor]

maybe giant panels of Lexan Placed behind the fences.