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Post by Calvin on Nov 20, 2011 20:53:20 GMT -5
Wow! That was unbelievable!
I'm wore out!
BTW I'm fan of Tony, so I'm pretty shook up right now.
No model building tonight. LOL
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Post by Chris on Nov 20, 2011 21:11:35 GMT -5
What a GREAT race, my Dad will be Very Happy, he is a huge Stewart fan as Tony loves to race R/C cars, so much he bought Dubro, a company my Dad helped get going and has met Tony many times, anyway Tony drove his a^&* off to the win and championship. On another note The Boo's given to Mrs Obama and Mrs Bidden when they wrere announced made me embarassed to be a racing fan, very sad and un-neccesary.... Congrats Tony Stewart enjoy that 5.6 million dollar check!!!!Chris  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2011 23:40:09 GMT -5
What else would you expect from NA$CAR fans? Another reason I don't care for NA$CAR or their fan base.... Nice to hear Tony won though.
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Post by Calvin on Nov 21, 2011 0:01:35 GMT -5
Politics and Nascar rules aside, Tony Stewart is a racers racer.
Its been a long time since I've seen a driver get on the wheel that much to carry a car and team. Way to go Stewart!
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Post by Chris on Nov 21, 2011 0:08:22 GMT -5
I have never seen a driver pass 118 cars in one race!!! Until Today! Given Stewarts Open wheel record, Modifieds, Sprints and NASCAR I would agree A Racers Racer!!! Chris |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2011 0:24:31 GMT -5
With the red on the hood,and the number 14 on the side,and a man behind the wheel that backs up what he says, this was another great one.I say GO TONY.
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Post by 2lapsdown on Nov 21, 2011 5:56:56 GMT -5
And again, they never mentioned his open wheel origins. NA$CAR is a wierd bunch. BTW Did anyone else catch the statement Dale Jarrett made about Mike Helton stopping in the TV booth to tell the announcers to say the right thing. DJ said it kind of tongue in cheek, but I'd bet the message from Helton was delivered.
John
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Post by Calvin on Nov 21, 2011 12:29:21 GMT -5
I like all forms of motorsports equally, I see the good, bad, and the ugly.
I'm just reporting the news but a lot of indycar fans are unbelievably bitter.
You guys now how much I love indycar, but time and time again Indycar is a big fat looser when it comes to becoming a high profile racing series.
Nascar is just minding their own business doing what they should and growing their series in the last 10 years HERE IN THE USA! NOT CHINA or some other country half way around the world!
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Post by Calvin on Nov 21, 2011 13:59:42 GMT -5
I know what I said above was little off the beat, but I'm mostly upset right now of how poorly indycar fans take Nascar's success on other forums and web comments.
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Post by harveythedog2 on Nov 21, 2011 14:02:05 GMT -5
I find it odd that Edwards and Stewart always seem to finish 1/2, 2/3, etc... the last several races. I smell fish...
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Post by Calvin on Nov 21, 2011 14:05:16 GMT -5
If indycar fans want a successful high profile series, its time to put on a more positive head and the positive energy will come back to you.
Because for the first time this year, I realized how race fans have a direct reflection on a race series. If a lot of the fans are bitter, why in the hell would new fans want to become a part of that?
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Post by Art Laski on Nov 21, 2011 15:29:56 GMT -5
I find it odd that Edwards and Stewart always seem to finish 1/2, 2/3, etc... the last several races. I smell fish... The same thing crossed my mind... Black helicopters? |
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Post by 2lapsdown on Nov 21, 2011 17:21:50 GMT -5
Calvin, I'm not knocking NA$CAR's success, I just wish they'd give Tony credit for his success in other series. Al and Stu, it smelled funny to me that the last yellow lasted just long enough to ensure that Carl had enough gas to finish without pitting. It also seemed funny they pulled so far away from third at the end. If guys like us seem overly skeptical, I'd say NA$CAR has earned that.
John
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Post by indydog on Nov 21, 2011 17:28:39 GMT -5
GOD, I LOVE NASCAR! There, I said it... that was one of the best races I have ever seen.
Even though I'm a Smoke fan from WAY back, I would have been ok with Edwards winning his first championship. I'm just really glad that hack, Jimmy Johnson, didn't win again.
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Post by Calvin on Nov 21, 2011 18:18:36 GMT -5
Calvin, I'm not knocking NA$CAR's success, I just wish they'd give Tony credit for his success in other series. Al and Stu, it smelled funny to me that the last yellow lasted just long enough to ensure that Carl had enough gas to finish without pitting. It also seemed funny they pulled so far away from third at the end. If guys like us seem overly skeptical, I'd say NA$CAR has earned that. John I wasn't necessarily pin pointing you out (I would of quoted you if I was) I was pin pointing everyone out that has done unnecessary nascar bashing. Its not nascar's job to do a history lesson on open wheel, people pay to see stock cars. |
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Post by Calvin on Nov 21, 2011 18:20:18 GMT -5
This is actually more serious than most indycar fans realize, but when you go and bash the most successful motorsport in America, it doesn't look to good. Especially when indycar is at its most vulnerable time period. I dont think anyone knows what needs to be fixed in indycar but IMO the best thing to do is change yourself as a fan, because what you put out will come right back at you. I would like to see less blaming of nascar, it was never nascar's fault that indycar made bad choices.
So, congratulations to nascar on a fantastic finish to the season.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2011 21:08:15 GMT -5
Kudos to Stewart...he is the real deal. Sorry Chaparral, but I have not liked NASCAR for the past 15 years. I would rather watch a Norfork and Western go by than those scripted races.
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Post by Calvin on Nov 21, 2011 21:45:03 GMT -5
Sorry Chaparral, but I have not liked NASCAR for the past 15 years. I would rather watch a Norfork and Western go by than those scripted races. I dont think you understand what I'm trying explain? I could care less if Indycar fans like nascar or not. What I'm most concerned about is Indycar fans setting a bad example for the series. I'm just trying to start a good example for indycar fans. I go on the indycar forums and I just see a lot of hate and bitterness, then I go on the nascar forums and see a lot of excitement and happiness. What is the big picture of all of this? How about setting a good example for indycar. I might get some people on here mad, but I'm not trying to, I'm just trying figure out the ramifications of race fans on a series. I'm trying to see this from a wide point of view but I might just still seeing it from my point of view? |
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Post by trevor83 on Nov 21, 2011 23:55:02 GMT -5
I'm glad neither of the Busch brothers were in contention, they're both assholes.
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Post by Calvin on Nov 22, 2011 3:19:36 GMT -5
The Busch brothers have a lot of growing up to do.
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Post by harveythedog2 on Nov 22, 2011 7:03:48 GMT -5
Just because I "smell fish" it doesn't mean I like or dislike Nascar. All I said was that it seemed pretty odd. Nascar has always been famous for the unbelievable happening. That said I rarely watch it myself so maybe I am off base and shouldn't have commented.  Anyway, Congrats to Tony Stewart. Stu |
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Post by Calvin on Nov 22, 2011 12:30:22 GMT -5
Never mind guys I dont think I'm getting point across. I'm mainly talking about how a lot, a lot, of the indycar fans seem to get jealous whenever Nascar has a blockbuster finish. But what I'm trying to do is start a good example for indycar, rather than pick apart why nascar sucks, just simply just say congratulations to everyone involve, and say nothing else. If we got most indycars fans to be gentlemen, It would make the sport look pretty good. Like I said above why would any new race fan want to join the indycar family when everyone is so bitter right now? My last word on this, IMO if indycar wants to shape up and become a high profile racing series, its fans attitude towards things needs to change. Hopefully the new car will put the past 15 years behind us and hopefully the image of the indycar fan will too. Yes I do agree there is sometimes fishy things that go on in Nascar but I have no I idea how you guys think the whole finish can be scripted?  |
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Post by clm1545 on Nov 22, 2011 17:58:27 GMT -5
Calvin, I think that I do get your point. It seems like we have a national epidemic going on. If you don't agree with someone, it becomes a complete hatred, there is no thought of a civil discussion. Chris, I agree that the fans treatment of Mrs Obama and Mrs Biden was in poor taste, but what did they expect. NASCAR fans tend to be quite a bit right of center as a group. Someone should have considered that before the invitation was made and excepted. Those people paid for the right to cheer or boo anyone at the track. I have not been a NASCAR fan for many years, I find the races contrived and too many gimmick rules ( green, white, checker, lucky dog, etc), however they have resisted red and black tires and push to pass so far. I am also not a Tony Stewart fan although I do concede that he is the most talented driver in this country. Both Indycar and NASCAR have real problems now with attendance and TV ratings which, In my opinion stem from ignoring the fans who made them, and trying anything they can dream up to attract new fans. Everyone wants to go after the "young and hip" ignoring the fact that they have a very short attention span. NASCAR is much more popular that Indycar for many reasons, one of the biggest, in my opinion, is that more people want to watch guys named Tony, Carl, Matt, and Jeff race Fords and Chevys, that guys named Dario, Oriol. Takuma, and Helio follow each other around in Dallaras.
My $.02
Craig
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2011 10:57:54 GMT -5
Never mind guys I dont think I'm getting point across. I'm mainly talking about how a lot, a lot, of the indycar fans seem to get jealous whenever Nascar has a blockbuster finish. But what I'm trying to do is start a good example for indycar, rather than pick apart why nascar sucks, just simply just say congratulations to everyone involve, and say nothing else. If we got most indycars fans to be gentlemen, It would make the sport look pretty good. Like I said above why would any new race fan want to join the indycar family when everyone is so bitter right now? My last word on this, IMO if indycar wants to shape up and become a high profile racing series, its fans attitude towards things needs to change. Hopefully the new car will put the past 15 years behind us and hopefully the image of the indycar fan will too. Yes I do agree there is sometimes fishy things that go on in Nascar but I have no I idea how you guys think the whole finish can be scripted? There is really nothing to be jealous about. IMO one of the problems that has put IndyCar in the state that it is in is the fact the series tried to be like NASCAR. Over spec cars, pack racing on cookie cutter tracks and the like has been bad for open wheel IMO. (That and the split when open wheel was right there with NASCAR) And just because the contrived "Chase" had a dramatic conclusion, don't think all is well in NASCAR. They have a lot of problems..."fishy" rules, low TV ratings, low attendance #s and some serious unprofessional driving are just a few. As for your gentlemen comment? It is hard for me to stomach the arrogance of a series that gives little to no credit of its safety upgrades to the folks who pioneered them....open wheel racing. How about some serious reciprocity and respect from that form of racing before you imply that open wheel fans are just negative and envious of the Cab races? I am hoping that the new car and engine(though early accounts are not that rosey  )will lift open wheel out of its funk. To me the diversity of racing and the talent our sport has to offer has no equal. |
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Post by gavkiwi on Nov 25, 2011 17:05:04 GMT -5
From 1997 - 2002/03 I was a huge nascar fan, I made it a priority to watch any nascar (cup) race over Cart/Indy and F1 races. I guess over exposure to the sport, watching every practice and qual session that I could, nascar today or what ever the name of that 30mins mon - fri show was that used to be on fox sports (FSN) 10 years ago or so.
I mean I couldn't get enough of it. Then I eventually lost interest in it, to now I am at the point that I might watch the last 30mins to an hour of a race every 3-4 races or so. But I will always, always watch the Daytona 500, some ppl refer to the current indycars as 'crap wagons', TBH, the biggest piece 'O crap in racing is the COT. No matter how they try to improve the look of the car, its still an ugly POS!!!
I did watch the season finale this year at homestead, and the race for the most part was good, I have always been a Tony Stewart fan, he reminds me a lot of A.J., and I think paying homage to Foyt by saying he will run the #14 for the rest of his career is pretty cool.
I enjoyed the race, and think that the right driver won the championship, Smoke is for sure a worthy 3x Champion. Now he just needs to win the Daytona 500, and do double duty in the month of may in 2012 and Win Indy, I mean he barely squeezed himself into Lewis Hamilton's 2008 McLaren at watkins glen when the 2 traded cars lol.
I wont go as far to say, the Nascar is WWF/WWE on wheels, but it is somewhat coincidental how they have sometimes have instances where you could bet money on the fact that the races are scripted. Then you need to think about all the variables that could go wrong if you did try and script something as intricate as a Nascar race, engines blowing, tires popping, rookies or crap drivers taking out a contender.
The best thing that can happen now in Nascar, is to get rid of those Busch brothers, both of em, I despise both of those troll looking muppets equally!
Perfect Example right here: "During Sunday's Ford 400 at Homestead, analyst Jerry Punch tried to interview Kurt Busch after the driver was forced out of the race with transmission problems. What resulted was a profanity-laced tirade by Busch who didn't want to wait until the ESPN control booth threw it to Punch. In the end, Punch decided he had enough and walked away from Busch telling his producers, "never mind, never mind."
He gets a 50k fine, watch the video on youtube if you wan't, I've disliked Kurt & Kyle for years, this just further solidifies my distaste for both of em!
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Post by Calvin on Nov 26, 2011 2:54:09 GMT -5
IMO one of the problems that has put IndyCar in the state that it is in is the fact the series tried to be like NASCAR. As far as 2 wide restarts but noting else comes to mind that they are currently trying to do like nascar. But Indycar trying to turn into an international series is not going to fly with the American fans. But they are still the 2nd most popular sport in America. I know a lot of people dont like the chase but believe it or not I thought the old points system was BS. I also got tried of people complaining how boring it was back then when they locked it up with 1 or 2 races to go. The chase is the same for everyone and it just adds to the season, gives people something to talk about besides 1 driver leading the whole season without winning very much. If people dont like the chase, the 1979 F1 points system was stupid! With throwing out your 2 or 3 worst races of the season.  I think both sides have done lots of development over the years. But IMO it took "nascar money" to get most of the major speedways to bring the safety up to the current standard. But at the end of the day IMO the race fans of a particular series has a direct effect of the series especially in this day of age when social media is so powerful.....its basically how a lot of the major competition rules come forth anymore. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2011 14:06:17 GMT -5
IMO one of the problems that has put IndyCar in the state that it is in is the fact the series tried to be like NASCAR. As far as 2 wide restarts but noting else comes to mind that they are currently trying to do like nascar. But Indycar trying to turn into an international series is not going to fly with the American fans. But they are still the 2nd most popular sport in America. I know a lot of people dont like the chase but believe it or not I thought the old points system was BS. I also got tried of people complaining how boring it was back then when they locked it up with 1 or 2 races to go. The chase is the same for everyone and it just adds to the season, gives people something to talk about besides 1 driver leading the whole season without winning very much. If people dont like the chase, the 1979 F1 points system was stupid! With throwing out your 2 or 3 worst races of the season. I think both sides have done lots of development over the years. But IMO it took "nascar money" to get most of the major speedways to bring the safety up to the current standard. But at the end of the day IMO the race fans of a particular series has a direct effect of the series especially in this day of age when social media is so powerful.....its basically how a lot of the major competition rules come forth anymore. 2K do you remember the IRL of 1996-2001? The whole series tried to copy the script of NASCAR. They succeeded in adopting crazy 1.5 mile races with cars of the same spec. Unfortunately we have to still deal with that copy-cat legacy. IMO the series that offer the most diversity in cars, tires, and style is the place you want the sport to be. Sorry, but safer walls, the Hans device, the Simpson harness, the Simpson's suit are all open wheel or road racing in origin. It is also painfully obvious that the NASCAR safety standard doesn't work for IndyCar on 1.5 banked ovals. As for points? I like a series that rewards the winning driver and teams. I'll take F1 points anyday. Again, I am hopeful that our sport will keep its diversity, its many styles of driving and a variety of manufacturers. I guess a lot of people have forgotten how popular and diverse our sport was before 1996. |
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Post by Calvin on Nov 26, 2011 14:36:35 GMT -5
2K do you remember the IRL of 1996-2001? The whole series tried to copy the script of NASCAR. They succeeded in adopting crazy 1.5 mile races with cars of the same spec. Unfortunately we have to still deal with that copy-cat legacy. IMO the series that offer the most diversity in cars, tires, and style is the place you want the sport to be. as far as I know TG wanted the IRL to be more like it was in 70's. with the development of USAC drivers. Yes I know, Indycar was the first to use the soft wall but it took the popularity of nascar to get the rest of the tracks to use them.....em I wrong? as far as the Hans Device neither series did that, it was Jim Downing in IMSA that helped with that safety device along. as for Simpson, I dont know. I dont mind diversity, I think most forms of racing have suffered from the case of the spec car flu in the last 10 years. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2011 13:26:29 GMT -5
Considering I've been fans of both series for years, I like them both for different reasons. If I wanted the same ole thing all the time, it would be kind of boring. As such, I love the short track pack racing of Nascar and the spread out racing of Indycars AT Indy. I also love it when both hit the road courses, especially when you see a road course driver try to get a stock car brick to turn like something from Aussie V-8. I also love the strategy of endurance racing and even spent a year campaigning my 2001 Ford Focus ZX-3 in SCCA Solo 2 (I didn't have the budget to sustain it though as it eats up tires).
Both series have their pros and cons. Both series have things I don't like. Indycar is slowly clawing its way back thanks to the damage brought by the split. But I will admit that during the split, while CART had cooler cars, IRL had a better package for fans to watch IMHO and the IRL was a little more accessible and appealing to the fans. CART was trying too much to be a bit too high brow in those years from what I could see and they lost their connect with the Indycar core. If that split DIDN'T happen, things might have been VERY different today as Indy back then had a great formula IMHO.
Concerning Tony, he is part of the reason I like both series. After Alan Kulwicki got killed in 1993, it took me years to find another driver to get behind fully. Back when Tony was driving for Team Menards in the IRL, he gained my interest with his skills behind the wheel. When he made the switch to nascar and joined Joe Gibbs racing, I considered it epic win as JGR was getting good (they won Daytona with Dale Jarrett and Bobby Labonte had won a championship in a Pontiac) and Joe Gibbs looked like a great owner to work for. The season Tony spent in Busch didn't reveal much, but while things started slow in Winston Cup, Tony really got the hang of it by the end as he had talent in a stock car which I hadn't seen since Davey Allison in 1987 (the last rookie to win a Cup race as I recall). Tony won two races that first season. And he continued to try and race IRL a couple times (and seemed to remain competitive).
The Tony of today has matured into a VERY good driver and while I don't entirely know if he will win a fourth championship (I am hopeful, but there are a LOT of good drivers coming behind him) I will still watch with eager enthusiasm, whatever he drives. It was pretty cool seeing him take a MacLaren F-1 car around the Glen earlier this year as I wish he would drive Indy again one day (he needs to lose a little weight first though).
People compare him to AJ Foyt and that is great, but personally I think Tony in many ways is better to Foyt. Part of that I chalk up to the culture that both men were brought up in as AJ is a throwback to when you sometimes had to use your fists to fight for what you needed and didn't have to worry about the sanctioning body coming down hard. While Tony has lost his temper sometimes, AJ lost it A LOT and took it out on equipment (I wonder what Foyt racing's laptop budget is for the number of PCs AJ has thrown). At least Tony CAN rally the troops when they are down. If AJ were in a similar situation to the last race this year, could he have done the same? I'm not entirely sure.
Of course, while I still believe that open wheel drivers are by and large superior to NASCAR drivers in terms of skill, it does NOT guarantee success. Classic examples of that are Sam Hornish and Casey Mears. I hope Danica is not expecting to win much as she has got A LOT of work to do in those cars. As such, I was kind of going WTF when Tony signed her for a limited cup schedule next year. But, maybe he sees something in her that the rest of us can not (or maybe Tony is just a shrewder businessman than we give him credit for).
I'll certainly take a Tony Stewart over a Dale Earnhardt Jr. any day.
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Post by gavkiwi on Dec 5, 2011 10:47:19 GMT -5
;D ;D ;D Kurt Busch parts way with Penske racing hahahahahahahaha soo long u troll lookn doosh nozzle |
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)will lift open wheel out of its funk. To me the diversity of racing and the talent our sport has to offer has no equal.
