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Post by Calvin on May 24, 2011 10:54:22 GMT -5
I dont know but this news doesn't concern me one bit. Whenever a sport has big money involved then stuff happens.
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Post by 2lapsdown on May 24, 2011 10:54:50 GMT -5
again
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2011 11:04:45 GMT -5
What gets me about all of this is that I recently flipped through the 77 yearbook and stumbled across the tale of a certain Salt Walther. As far as I could see the situation was that there were 2 drivers of broadly comparable records, one qualified and the other didn't. So the owner of the car that didn't qualify bought the car out from under the other driver and tried to install the unqualified driver. The hue and cry was such that George Walther ended up not putting Salt into the car after all, and the stain that remained on the Walthers never really seemed to go despite Bill Puterbaugh still taking the start in the car he qualified (with the Walthers' sponsors painted on the car).
Fast forward 34 years and we have a situation that isn't really that dissimilar. Both times the swap would be perfectly within the rulebook, and we're talking drivers with broadly similar big car abilities/records in each swap. But whereas in 77 and ever since the Walthers were derided as being underhanded, nepotistic and disrespectful we're now expected to just see this as a "business thing" and let it go? Or a history making Foyt-Andretti love-in?
No.
Don't get me wrong, this won't stop me watching the race, and it won't stop me watching and enjoying Indycar in general. All it'll do is change the no. 41 from a car I cheered for to one I won't cheer for. But make no mistake, this is every bit as dishonourable as the Salt Walther deal and it strikes me that if anything what the venerated Mr. Foyt should have done is told Andretti that he's free to put his precious Sun Drop and DHL logos and funding on the 41 and the AA crew can help the car do as well as it possibly can on race day but it'll be Bruno in the seat. Just like the apparently more honourable SFR crew did last year and like Fuzzy's Vodka is doing with the no. 44 this year. You didn't see Sarah try to shoehorn Jay Howard into the FAZZT car last year, did you? You don't see Speed, Ho Pin or Carpentier slipping into the 44 Panther car this year either.
There's no need to change the rule, but I think the same moral standards should be applied here to Andretti and Foyt as were applied to George Walther. The Penske deals with Hiss/Andretti and Dallenbach/Andretti were pre-arranged and above board. The Groff/Goodyear, Jones/Goodyear and Tagliani/Junqueira swaps were between teammates so I don't see a problem there. This one seems to me like just another Walther thing though, within the letter of the rules but it just stinks morally. It's certainly not as if Bruno hasn't paid his dues at IMS and earned his ride. Even with the precedent from the Snider/Richmond swap this is pretty lame from AJ, the guy who was complaining about the top 9 shootout on pole day on the basis that a driver should keep his time and not have it revised by a gimmick. So a gimmick is wrong but selling out someone like Bruno so cheaply just because Mikey is finding it hard to run his team now that he's got no-one's coattails to ride on is just fine, is it AJ? Sorry, that's just weak.
Anyway, just the thoughts of a danged furriner. In the end, we're in for a good race with a deep field and that's good enough for me. Heroes, villains, gutsy chicks with burned-up hands, the lot! Roll on, Sunday!
Mungo.
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Post by Calvin on May 24, 2011 11:05:20 GMT -5
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Post by harveythedog2 on May 24, 2011 11:25:53 GMT -5
I have no problem with what has happened. As I said before i do feel for Bruno but I expect that he was paid well for it regardless if he wanted to do it or not.
I think Tony Kanaan's take on it is the best.
“You have to look at the big picture, and you can quote me on this, big time,” said 2004 IZOD IndyCar Series champion Tony Kanaan. “We should not judge anybody, because we never know what might happen to us. But… You have to have dignity, and that must be said. You have to act with dignity in how you handle things like this. I hate this situation for both of the drivers....
But you’re talking about a one-off race for Bruno, and you’re talking about a full-time guy like RHR with a big sponsor that’s new, and it would be a big loss if he wasn’t driving in the race. It’s the biggest race of the year. You gotta look at the big picture, man.”
“It’s in the rules at the moment, so we can’t complain about it for this year. It’s done. Accept it. If we’re just talking about rules, they are doing nothing wrong. If people really hate it, like the single-file restarts, then speak up and tell the series you want it changed for next year. Make your voice heard. Tell them you want it changed if that’s what you want. Judgment is not made by me, not by you, but by other people. Tell those people what you think. That’s my best advice.”
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Post by indycals on May 24, 2011 12:09:25 GMT -5
I don't like the fact that RHR had to have his way bought into the field more than anybody else likes it.
But there is one thing that I would like far, far less: Losing DHL and SunDrop
Paul Tracy took it 'like a man' last year and now Geico is on another team's car.
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Post by mrindy77 on May 24, 2011 12:28:21 GMT -5
Penske took it like man in in 1995......headline...
Unser, Fittipaldi Run Out of Time : Indianapolis 500: Penske takes blame after defending champion, former winner fail to qualify.
"Man up" Andretti - take your lumps and come back next year stronger.
I'm sure the captain had enough money to buy out 2 cars.
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Post by harveythedog2 on May 24, 2011 12:37:28 GMT -5
Remember when drivers used to jump from one car to another during a race to gain driver points?
One story that comes to mind is Mario at Riverside in 68. Car breaks down while leading, jumps into Joe Leonards turbine and wrecks it a lap & a half later. Get a motorcycle ride from Parnelli and jumps in Lloyd Ruby's car and finishes the race.
I don't agree with that but when it's in the rules, it's in the rules. Andretti and Foyt have done nothing wrong like it or not.
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Post by mrindy77 on May 24, 2011 12:39:16 GMT -5
Maybe all the teams with T cars should qualify them next year and auction them off to the highest bidder.....ala Barret-Jackson.
Even though the rules may allow it...doesn't mean I have to like it. Which was the premise of the post from the start. I know come race day where I'll be...Grandstand C Section 2 Row QQ Seat 18 (35 years straight). I'm willing to bet the boo birds will be out in force when drivers are introduced.
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Post by indycals on May 24, 2011 12:40:16 GMT -5
Unfortunately Michael isn't in Penske's position. He's losing GoDaddy next year when Danica leaves, he doesn't have any real sponsorship for Conway. He lost 7-Eleven as a primary, and SunDrop is part of Venom, whom I'm sure neither of which he wants to lose. Whereas Penske was on the BOD for his primary sponsor.
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Post by SWT500 on May 24, 2011 12:40:37 GMT -5
I believe a reasonable compromise would have been to paint up Foyt's car as the 28 but let Bruno drive the race car. RHR could entertain sponsors to his heart's content in the suite and show what a true sportsman he is.
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Post by indycals on May 24, 2011 12:41:17 GMT -5
Remember when drivers used to jump from one car to another during a race to gain driver points? One story that comes to mind is Mario at Riverside in 68. Car breaks down while leading, jumps into Joe Leonards turbine and wrecks it a lap & a half later. Get a motorcycle ride from Parnelli and jumps in Lloyd Ruby's car and finishes the race. I don't agree with that but when it's in the rules, it's in the rules. Andretti and Foyt have done nothing wrong like it or not. And IIRC Mario finished high enough that he would have won the championship if he didn't have to split the points with Ruby. |
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Post by indycals on May 24, 2011 12:43:19 GMT -5
RHR could entertain sponsors to his heart's content in the suite and show what a true sportsman he is. And not score any points for the championship? Like it or not, the best thing for those involved is exactly what went down, even Bruno, who's reported $200,000 severance check is far more than he would have gotten by splitting winnings. |
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Post by mrindy77 on May 24, 2011 12:57:22 GMT -5
....but Bruno's mug won't be on the Borg Warner. In my opinion, that's what is all about....at least that's how I'd want to be remembered.....perhaps broke and busted but immortalized as an Indy 500 champion. Who made it into the race by posting a qualifying speed.
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Post by 2lapsdown on May 24, 2011 13:36:30 GMT -5
Calvin, my comment was directed to Steve's comment. Money talks, Bruno walks . . . again.
John
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Post by SWT500 on May 24, 2011 13:43:27 GMT -5
Any way it turns out, I just wish everyone well and I respect all the opinions expressed here.  As for me, I'm pulling for Servia. Front Row "O"!!!  I want another ring.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2011 18:50:38 GMT -5
Question. Why doesn't Foyt pull the 41 car and let AA put in the Sun Drop car? I don't see the difference if a driver was injured during the week and the car was withdrawn; that would be the same thing. I'm thinking they would call the 34th car up to the field.
THx
Farlan Clutters
Hesperia, Calif.
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Post by indy on May 24, 2011 20:09:49 GMT -5
I'm sure AJ has his reasons ;D He didn't get to where he is by not being savvy. Owner's points? Owner's money? I don't know but I do know SuperTex got to call the shots in the "negotiations."
Jordan
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2011 0:19:24 GMT -5
Here's another interesting twist to this thing. Just ran across an ABC Racing hero card of one Ryan Hunter-Reay who just happened to work for A.J. back in 2009. RHR is a full-time series driver who more or less landed in a perfect storm of "Murphy's Law"; lousy weather this month, a car that wasn't up to what it was supposed to be, the list goes on. A.J., figuring he'd give one of his old guys a break, gets RHR into the deal (either willingly or unwillingly), as part of the "rescue mission" to get AA's cockles out of the fire with DHL and Sun Drop. Just my own half-baked analysis after looking at this a little more.
I'm not saying it's right, it is in the rule book, but it could have been handled a lot better than it was. Allegedly, Bruno walked away with $200k for the irritation and b.s. involved with the mess. Also heard on Versus that Bruno will be spotting for T.K.
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Post by mjjracer on May 25, 2011 13:16:12 GMT -5
I don't like the fact that RHR had to have his way bought into the field more than anybody else likes it. But there is one thing that I would like far, far less: Losing DHL and SunDrop Paul Tracy took it 'like a man' last year and now Geico is on another team's car. Excellent points. I do feel very sorry for Bruno - he is a racer and seems like a really good guy who never quite got the break. Sadly, the sport is filled with guys like that. But if I were Mikey I would have done exactly the same thing. Michael is correct: it's the right thing for the sport. |
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Post by trevor83 on May 25, 2011 17:08:14 GMT -5
Remember when drivers used to jump from one car to another during a race to gain driver points? One story that comes to mind is Mario at Riverside in 68. Car breaks down while leading, jumps into Joe Leonards turbine and wrecks it a lap & a half later. Get a motorcycle ride from Parnelli and jumps in Lloyd Ruby's car and finishes the race. I don't agree with that but when it's in the rules, it's in the rules. Andretti and Foyt have done nothing wrong like it or not. But this is Indy, unlike any other track. I agree with Steve, put the sponsor on the Foyt's car and let Bruno drive it. Ironically that happend to Bruno last year when Sarah moved the Service Central sponsorship over to his car. Why was it different this year? Ryan is 116 points out already and in 23rd (lowest AA car). What do the points matter right now. If they were worried about points, put Conway (4th) in the car with the DHL/Sun Drop on it. None of this makes ANY sense. |
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Post by 2lapsdown on May 25, 2011 19:52:01 GMT -5
Apparently to AJ, it made perfect cents.
John
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2011 21:02:57 GMT -5
Here's another angle as well; RHR may have had a deal with DHL/Sun Drop to drive in the race. There may not have been an "out" to do the extra sponsor spots on the 41 with Bruno driving. Possibly an exclusive deal where he (RHR) absolutely had to show for the race.
A.J. also has a tendency to show loyalty towards those who have performed well for him in the past. Listened to an interview with RHR on WIBC this morning. This was in no way his idea. He was actually heading down to Texas on Monday for some ad work involving Dr. Pepper. Next thing he knows, he's getting turned around and headed back to Indy and told he's driving for A.J. He also denied the story that this was "his idea" and is going after a retraction of the statement that was attributed to him. Also got to the meat of the matter in that if this hadn't happened, AA would probably cease to exist. He didn't say this directly, but "reading between the p.r. lines" he did say as much. The quote was something to the effect of, "A lot of my friends were going to be out of a job very soon, garage guys, everybody", if this deal hadn't come down.
Just some more food for thought.........
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2011 11:05:23 GMT -5
It would make most sense to just withdraw the Foyt car - RHR is first alternate. Why do all the work to re-livery a new car? The Foyt car is fastest of the two and therefore has the best chance of winning. Ahhhh, that's the old AJ/Indy circus I was missing! This is what May is all about, the day AJ passes into history is the end of and Indy 500 era. |
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