Build O Rama 69 Eagle F5000 WIP

[Chris]

I had originally intended to take it easy on you guys for a bit after the Lotus 56B Offy WIP and just do the Arrows Fa13a build, but I hve decided to do a 1969 Eagle F5000 using a R&D Unique all metal Weslake 5.0 Ford engine, although similar to MPC it engine I think it will be a much more acurate build... I want to do 2 Eagle F5000 1 Weslake Ford and 1 Traco Chevrolet. I have some Ricombi decals to do the George Wintersteen car so that will be first.

I am not positive which version I will do but there are many out there................................... Chris

[Chris]

Guy's this build is Pissing me off....the Weslake engine in the Olsonite Eagle kit is way wrong as the Heads and Intake on a Weslake are one piece and use a Valve cover top only not a full Valve cover...The R&D Weslake engine is nice but working with soft white metal tends to get me going, everything is non descript, medium detail so I tend to do lots of drilling, sanding, polishing, cussing and throwing stuff back in the box.. not to mention there were parts missing, I can make those or use some plastic parts... I have been looking at the 355cid Chevrolet engine in the Accurate and Miniature Grandsport kit which is sweet and will require minimum modification but I don't know if I feel like making headers and do I want to pull a engine out of a kit that I paid about $50 for? So here I sit throwing around the possibilities!!! Well I will update as I figure it out...Chris

[eagle36]

Dec 16, 2010 16:53:41 GMT -5 Chris said:

Guy's this build is Pissing me off....the Weslake engine in the Olsonite Eagle kit is way wrong as the Heads and Intake on a Weslake are one piece and use a Valve cover top only not a full Valve cover...The R&D Weslake engine is nice but working with soft white metal tends to get me going, everything is non descript, medium detail so I tend to do lots of drilling, sanding, polishing, cussing and throwing stuff back in the box.. not to mention there were parts missing, I can make those or use some plastic parts... I have been looking at the 355cid Chevrolet engine in the Accurate and Miniature Grandsport kit which is sweet and will require minimum modification but I don't know if I feel like making headers and do I want to pull a engine out of a kit that I paid about $50 for? So here I sit throwing around the possibilities!!! Well I will update as I figure it out...Chris

Hold up here a minute. The Weslake heads were not legal in F5000 and the only time a Ford was used in an Eagle was in Adamowicz' car at Sebring 1969. The AM Chev is 1/24 and the Eagle is 1/25, so there's a problem.

[clm1545]

Chris
The photos that I have do not show that the heads and intake were 1 piece. There were more that 1 version of those heads, so I'm not sure what you saw. Almost, if not all of the F5000 Eagles ran Chevy engines. I am not aware that any of them used the Ford block with the Eagle Weslake heads.
Take Care
Craig

[Chris]

Actually the beauty of the Weslake was the one piece head/intake
[imghttp://images116.fotki.com/v695/photos/6/1081966/9153958/PICT1438-vi.jpg][/img]

I dont know of any true Gurney Weslake Fords that were not of this unique configuration..One real nice thing about the intake set up is you can bolt either Weber Carbs or Fuel Injection directly to the head without modification.. I may have confused a few people as the F5000 series was also known Formula A and according to the pics I have there were plenty of Ford powered Eagles in F/A. I have pics of Olds, Pontiac and even a AMC powered Eagle F5000 or F/A I will post them as I find them. My Build wasn't meant to be an exact replica of a specific car but more as a fun build that captured the spirit of F5000 - F/A

[Chris]

Forgot this one, note the unique water jackets that run the inside of the induction as the valley is wide open..Chris

[Patrick]

Have fun with it Chris!

Patrick

[clm1545]

Great photos, Chris. Those intake ports do allow either Webber carbs or a FI setup to mount almost directly. AAR made a 4bbl intake that mounted to those ports, and that is what I have seen on a few road cars using those heads. According to the book "Gurney's Eagles" AAR built 2 cars for the 1968 Formula A season, both Chevy powered. For 1969 the cars were changed to allow for other engines, however the successful Eagles were Chevy powered.
I have no doubt that with your skills, you could replicate the Weslake heads. If you are looking for a Chevy engine in 1/25, how about an AMT NASCAR unit. I have a few of them and you are welcome to one.
Take Care
Craig

[Chris]

I have some parts pack small blocks that are pretty cool, but I put them in the trunk of my car and guess which one the wife took to work today!!!LOL I told her to leave work imediately and bring them home but for some reason her Boss didnt understand after all, Models vs Paycheck, What's more important?? He didnt ask me....Chris

[Chris]

Yeah chassis #510 & 511 were very successful in 68 and even beyond, those and #512 are the most noted for their success, John Cannon, Dr Lou Sell and Tony Az I think drove those.. In 1969 as the name changed to F5000 there were many less notable cars built, even a few catastrophes, and those are better left to history.. The actual 5.0L rule was applied to F5000 in 1973, before that there was a lot of entries from similar series in various countries there were even some 3.0 Cosworth cars, not Eagles, but there was a lot of combinations that were tried, The Traco Chevy engines came out on top and Ruled for years. My idea is a plain white car with wings, I guess it going to be Chevy and some decals I have hanging around. Just a plain Jane... like I said "To Project the Spirit of the Series".. Chris

[smbrm]

Gents

A bit more detail regarding the Weslake Ford V8.

Two sources reviewed:
1) Gurney's Eagles by Ludvigsen
2) Dan Gurney's Eagle Racing Cars by Zimmerman


Originally conceived in 1965
By 1965 MKII version had been developed and used in the for the Gurney Lotus 19 according to 2)
by 1966 MKIII version had been developed.
MKIII heads were used in Rindt Eagle at Indy 1967 - 4967cc Gurney Slide Throttles
MIV heads were used in Gurney Eagle at Riverside Indy 1967. Gurney Slide Throttles
MIV heads were used in Gurney Eagle at Indy in 1968-4967cc and 1969- 5218cc. Gurney Slide Throttles.

MKIV heads were featured in the MPC Indy Eagle. Gurney Slide Throttles

MKIII heads at least(perhaps earlier ones as well) seemed to always be associated with the "Gurney Weslake" written in a script(handwriting style font) while the MKIV head was GURNEY EAGLE in Block letter capitals. I would say the lower photo above is a MKIV head and the upper photo a MKIII or earlier head.

I also note the existence of a GURNEY WESLAKE labelled cam cover, however this appears to be an aftermarket item
forums.vintage-mustang.com/vintage-mustang-forum/611407-show-me-your-valve-covers.html#post3964994. scroll to post #8 (NOTE, THIS IS WHAT APPEARS TO BE IN THE R&D Kit! as well as the MKIV cam cover from the MPC Kit)

The R&D unique kit(small pic) appears to have parts for both versions. One caution however is that the best set of 1/25-1/24 downdraft Weber Carburettors is perhaps the Historic Racing Miniature versions{1/24}(to my eye the downdraft tubes are a little wide spaced relative to the central metering unit, but and excellent rendition never-the-less). The R&D Webers look more like sidedrafts than downdrafts.

Couple of notes about the Eagle F5000 1968, 1969.
The F5000 had smaller fuel tanks than the Indy version. The MPC Indy Eagle replicates the larger more bulged Indy fuel tank size which you may want to slim down for an F5000 variant. Its really hard to gauge by how much though, and the contour is subtly different, particularly in the rear half! 1968 F5000 Eagles used the Hewland LG600 while the 1969's used the DG300 according to 2). The LG 500 from the MPC kit is essentially the 4 speed version of the 5 speed LG600. Not sure where you could source a 1/25 DG300?

Gurney's Eagles by Ludvigsen claims the MKII heads first raced in a Mclaren at Riverside 1965. However Dan Gurney's Eagle Racing Cars by Zimmerman suggests that the Weslake Ford was first raced in a Gurney's Lotus 19 at Riverside 1965.

MkIII heads can also be seen on AAR Lola T70 winning Bridgehampton USRRC 1966. while the McLeagle used the MkIV heads on a 325 CID

Parts Pack small block Chevrolet may be a good starting point for the a 1/25 F5000 engine.

I don't ever recall hearing of an F5000 using a Weslake Ford V8, however for a concept racer it sounds like an interesting variant.



Stephen
members.shaw.ca/millersbrm/speeddetails.html



NOTE THIS PHOTO with the orange block IS A MKIII head. The MPC kit has the MKIV head as does the R&D kit as far as I can tell. The The MKIV head is not the same as the MKIII. The MKIV head inclines the intake towards the centre of the engine V and makes the intake part of the engine much narrower.

Dec 16, 2010 23:32:42 GMT -5 Chris said:

Actually the beauty of the Weslake was the one piece head/intake
[imghttp://images116.fotki.com/v695/photos/6/1081966/9153958/PICT1438-vi.jpg]

[/img]

I dont know of any true Gurney Weslake Fords that were not of this unique configuration..One real nice thing about the intake set up is you can bolt either Weber Carbs or Fuel Injection directly to the head without modification.. I may have confused a few people as the F5000 series was also known Formula A and according to the pics I have there were plenty of Ford powered Eagles in F/A. I have pics of Olds, Pontiac and even a AMC powered Eagle F5000 or F/A I will post them as I find them. My Build wasn't meant to be an exact replica of a specific car but more as a fun build that captured the spirit of F5000 - F/A[/quote]

[Chris]

Goos Stuff, I have been stalled by 7 days of Rain here in So Cal....I put part of the parts pack engine together and modified the clutch cover to accept the transaxle. I tried to paint the engine but the moisture and 50 degree temps made the paint come out a little less than the desired effect. I could deal with the temp by putting it in the oven after spraying but the moisture is something I cant do anything about. It stopped raining today but you can feel the moisture in the air so I will see what tomorrow brings.. I cant even paint the tub so evrything is just sitting waiting..Chris

[smbrm]

Made some clarifications to my original post. See red text.

[eagle36]

Here is the link to Old Racing Cars. com website section on the F5000 Eagles:

www.oldracingcars.com/f5000/eagle/

WARNING: You may never come back from that website, it is enormous and detailed beyond belief. For the relativetly small number of Eagle F5000 cars built, their history is complex, confused, and contradictory.