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Post by indycals on Jul 28, 2010 11:58:12 GMT -5
I wasn't watching racing in 1970 so I can't say. But I can say I did do a Skip Barber competition course in 1987 and I am almost certain that one of the things they taught us was that if you are leading and want to defend your position, one way to do that was to take the inside line and force your competitor to try an outside pass. Of course they also taught us "It is the overtaking car's responsibility to make the pass cleanly" and that seems to have gone out the window these days.
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Post by SWT500 on Jul 28, 2010 12:25:19 GMT -5
To me it's simple. When one takes a line, one should hold it and move on to the next corner. Perhaps one item that has not been mentioned is that HCN would have been screaming bloody murder if, for example, he was on the receiving end from either Dixon or Dario. Remember last week at Toronto, when he crashed into the back of Vitor and then blamed him for "braking too early". How about just standing up and saying, "I did it but I'm unhappy they penalized me because everyone else does it".?
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Post by Art Laski on Jul 29, 2010 20:03:13 GMT -5
That was a shameful call. That looked like good racing to me, and Helio only moved over to take the proper line into the corner. That makes the series look so amateurish. Guys, take a look at the video now posted on the Indycar website. They set a rule disallowing defensive driving. So, I don't think the call could be "amateurish", though maybe you could call the rule "amateurish". Stu, That was exactly my point, the move over was not the defensive part. I saw the tape several times and it never looked like a block. To me, it looked like Helio held his line on the inside up until the point where he had to take the proper line into the corner. He was still way offline as it was, as evidenced by the black marks on the track that he was nowhere near. If he hadn't adjusted his line, he would have driven straight into Power in the corner due to centrifugal force caused by the early apex. The call was bad, the rule was dumb, and the whole episode makes the series look bad, i.e. "amatuerish". Art |
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Post by Art Laski on Jul 29, 2010 20:13:33 GMT -5
I think Curt Cavin said it pretty well here: "Izod IndyCar Series participants agreed Tuesday: Helio Castroneves violated a rule unique to this form of racing. Just what to do about the rule is open for debate." Here is the link: www.indystar.com/article/20100728/SPORTS0107/7280332/1052/SPORTS01/Normal-driving-line-onlyI think what would be interesting would be to study how defensive driving has changed over time. I suspect, and let me know if you have a differing opinion, that it was 1970 and we witnessed the defensive driving that occurred on Sunday, that we would be mortified of Helio's move. Gradually, overtime, it became the rule rather than the exception. Opinions? Someone mentioned it earlier- part of the problem is that Helio is a habitual blocker, so he put the target on his own back. I happen to condone defensive driving and was pretty damn good at it in my karting days. It makes the race interesting. That said, I HATE blocking- there is a difference. Taking a defensive line is a lot different than almost taking a guy out. I'm not a Helio fan, per se, but he did nothing wrong in this instance, IMHO. But I think his reputation, a dumb rule, and a cheif steward of questionable judgment created the perfect storm. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2010 0:57:48 GMT -5
And it gets even better. Apparently Bonehart wants to call Helio on the carpet to review his post race "actions" and may assess MORE penalties on him. This is like throwing gasoline on an already flaming fire.
I guess Bonehart really wants to trash out the series for the fact that he can't put his ego aside, admit he went overboard and reverse the ruling. Dredging the thing whole thing up again and continuing it lacks any display of lucidity of thought from BB.
Chicken---- begets more chicken----............
Apologies to the more sensitive if I've been a little "Oldcalhounish".
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Post by indydog on Jul 30, 2010 5:01:59 GMT -5
Personally, I think the drivers should boycott, and refuse to drive, until Barnhart is removed from power.
I know that would never happen because none of them have the balls...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2010 9:43:13 GMT -5
Personally, I think the drivers should boycott, and refuse to drive, until Barnhart is removed from power. I know that would never happen because none of them have the balls... Too many are Nancy Boys with no spine, I agree. Barnhart is one of the main reasons the IZOD Penske/Ganassi Spec Racing League is doomed. Best to you! Russ |
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Post by stuboyle on Jul 30, 2010 9:44:28 GMT -5
I think Curt Cavin said it pretty well here: "Izod IndyCar Series participants agreed Tuesday: Helio Castroneves violated a rule unique to this form of racing. Just what to do about the rule is open for debate." Here is the link: www.indystar.com/article/20100728/SPORTS0107/7280332/1052/SPORTS01/Normal-driving-line-onlyI think what would be interesting would be to study how defensive driving has changed over time. I suspect, and let me know if you have a differing opinion, that it was 1970 and we witnessed the defensive driving that occurred on Sunday, that we would be mortified of Helio's move. Gradually, overtime, it became the rule rather than the exception. Opinions? Someone mentioned it earlier- part of the problem is that Helio is a habitual blocker, so he put the target on his own back. I happen to condone defensive driving and was pretty damn good at it in my karting days. It makes the race interesting. That said, I HATE blocking- there is a difference. Taking a defensive line is a lot different than almost taking a guy out. I'm not a Helio fan, per se, but he did nothing wrong in this instance, IMHO. But I think his reputation, a dumb rule, and a cheif steward of questionable judgment created the perfect storm. Obviously, blocking as is defined by the FIA is clearly against the rules in any road series. As Curt Cavin's article I previously linked to mentioned, Tony Cotman started this rule in Champ Car which, if I recall, was specific to street races. If it wasn't for this rule, there wouldn't be any passing on some of these tight street courses such as Belle Isle for example. I think a rule makes sense for this type of circuit. Applying this rule to a place like Edmonton, which is pretty wide open, I don't really think it's necessary. |
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Post by Art Laski on Jul 30, 2010 17:44:50 GMT -5
I think a rule makes sense for this type of circuit. Applying this rule to a place like Edmonton, which is pretty wide open, I don't really think it's necessary. Agreed... The bottom line for me, though, is that I love Indy car racing, and as frustrating as it can be when something happens like this that I may not agree with, I'll be watching th next race  If I had money on it, I might actually be pissed! For now, though, it's just a good reason to debate a little.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2010 19:12:36 GMT -5
And all i wanted to talk about was Jamie McMurray winning the brickyard giving Ganassi the triple crown of daytona, indy, and the brickyard in the same year. Who knew it would turn into a discussion about Helio's non-victory and the guy who made such a assinine decision that I shutter saying or thinking his name  |
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If I had money on it, I might actually be pissed! For now, though, it's just a good reason to debate a little. 
