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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2010 15:22:39 GMT -5
Ganassi has won the triple crown of the motorsports:
Daytona with McMurray, Indianapolis with Dario, and now The Brickyard 400 again with McMurray!
Unreal, congrats to Chip Ganassi. Couldn't happen to a nicer owner!
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Post by Patrick on Jul 25, 2010 17:06:43 GMT -5
"of Motorsports"  It seems the 24 hours of Le Mans seems to be missing let alone any International race of importance. perhaps a Triple Crown of here in the States, but...a feat none the less. Yee-haw. We Americans seem to think the "World Series" really includes the world! This be not so... Patrick |
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Post by indycals on Jul 25, 2010 18:22:16 GMT -5
Not only did he do the trifecta, but he was only a couple seconds from doing the quadfecta - McMurray was second at the 600 on Memorial Weekend.
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Post by Michael Chriss on Jul 25, 2010 19:42:52 GMT -5
I am no Heilo fan, but I thought the penalty imposed today was wrong. Two years ago he got the same penalty, and I thought that was the correct call at that time. He did not hit the apex, or touch the curb into the corner, and pushed Power wide, but I did not think he blocked him. They need to let the guys race.
I'm always amazed when sports guys throw a hissy. If any of us did that at our jobs, that would be our last day. I don't blame Heilo for being upset, I feel he got a bum call. But we all need to behave like big people, set an example for the kids. I like the way the head security guy smiled at him when Helio grabbed him by the shirt.
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Post by clm1545 on Jul 25, 2010 21:26:53 GMT -5
I did not have much respect for Brian Barnhart before today, now I have none. Indycar racing continues to selfdestruct.
Take Care
Craig
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Post by Calvin on Jul 25, 2010 23:28:11 GMT -5
I didn't get a chance to watch so I wont say to much but those types of screwed up calls have happen time and time again....not necessarily blocking but just screwed up calls in general have happen in Indycar racing for as long as its been going on. Back in the early 80's CART would always have a scoring screw up. So Stuff happens....We just forget all the past mess ups!
As for the blocking rule....its too grey.....I dont like it.
As for the "Tri-fecto" Thats awesome! I like Chip.
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Post by indydog on Jul 26, 2010 0:43:26 GMT -5
I didn't watch the Indycar race today, but I did check out the video of the "incident". That has got to be the stupidest call I have ever seen!!
Also, that blocking rule is just as stupid, you can't go down on the inside of the track to defend? WTF?
*edit*
Congrats to Jamie Mac on a great win in Indy. A new winner and JJ finished outside the top 20... a perfect race!
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Post by Art Laski on Jul 26, 2010 1:47:10 GMT -5
That was a shameful call. That looked like good racing to me, and Helio only moved over to take the proper line into the corner. That makes the series look so amateurish.
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Post by stuboyle on Jul 26, 2010 8:17:55 GMT -5
That was a shameful call. That looked like good racing to me, and Helio only moved over to take the proper line into the corner. That makes the series look so amateurish. Guys, take a look at the video now posted on the Indycar website. They set a rule disallowing defensive driving. So, I don't think the call could be "amateurish", though maybe you could call the rule "amateurish". |
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Post by SWT500 on Jul 26, 2010 9:12:06 GMT -5
Like many things, this was just the tip of a very large iceberg. HCN has always been accused of blocking. That reputation is well deserved. Whether it's subtle or not, teammate or not, end of the race or not, the drivers were duly and clearly warned. If you criticize BB for anything, it should be for not acting sooner and more decisively several years ago. HCN has gotten a little too big for his britches (to borrow an old saying) and he was WAY out of line.
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Post by stuboyle on Jul 26, 2010 9:38:59 GMT -5
Well, I know what the traditional definition of blocking and that of defensive driving. That clearly was not blocking. It was clearly defensive driving, which apparently is not allowed as well.
At some circuits, such as Belle Isle and Toronto, you would see no passing if they allowed defensive driving, thus the rule. Edmonton, the rule is not quite as necessary.
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Post by indycals on Jul 26, 2010 10:52:18 GMT -5
A couple points on this 'rule'. If one were to go back and study the video I'm confident that one could find dozens if not hundreds of the exact same 'infraction' during the race.
Second: Why was this rule not enforced when Briscoe and Miera did the same thing in Toronto (resulting in accidents for Rahal and Helio)? The difference was that Briscoe and Miera's infractions were much worse as they were done at the entrance to the turn. Helio's 'infraction' came way before the turn, by which time Power had him committed to the inside. How exactly does one yield the inside line to a car that is on your outside?
Rule or not, it is the single worst call in motorsports history. Anything less than Barnhart being fired is unacceptable.
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Post by stuboyle on Jul 26, 2010 11:11:56 GMT -5
indycalsWell, there are different degrees of defensive driving. You apparently can get away with a little to moderate amount of defensive driving. And I agree with you there are a lot of instances which are missed. You are absolutely correct about Toronto. They are not enforcing the rule consistently. Though there is that little kink near the end of the straight at Toronto which makes it appear not quite as blatant I think it was very clear that Helio chose the inside line and yielded the outside line to Power. That's what makes it defensive driving and not blocking
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Post by indycals on Jul 26, 2010 11:19:48 GMT -5
Defensive driving has always been a part of racing. If Barnhart had been officiating the 1982 Indy 500 he would have taken the win from Johncock because of his last lap chop block on Mears. But you NEVER heard Mears criticize Gordy for that move. He also would have taken the 1992 win from Unser Jr for his weaving down the front stretch (only back then it was to break the draft, not to block). Barnhart likes to micromanage to the point of telling teams the pole sitter must lead into the first turn at Indy! He won't be happy until they are racing slot cars.
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Post by trevor83 on Jul 26, 2010 11:27:30 GMT -5
Ironic that Chip didn't win the 24 Hrs of Daytona this year of all years after recent domination there.
The call on Helio was accurate based on the rule being laid out at the driver's meeting.
That said.....that is a stupid rule. To me, that was not a block. Helio never moved and there was plenty of racing surface for Power to get around him. I can't understand why Will stayed behind Helio for so long. He could have completed the pass if he would have moved sooner.
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Post by stuboyle on Jul 26, 2010 11:36:54 GMT -5
Defensive driving has always been a part of racing. If Barnhart had been officiating the 1982 Indy 500 he would have taken the win from Johncock because of his last lap chop block on Mears. But you NEVER heard Mears criticize Gordy for that move. He also would have taken the 1992 win from Unser Jr for his weaving down the front stretch (only back then it was to break the draft, not to block). Barnhart likes to micromanage to the point of telling teams the pole sitter must lead into the first turn at Indy! He won't be happy until they are racing slot cars. Well, I don't think defensive driving has always been a part of racing. I think it slowly crept in over time starting maybe in the early 1980's. The precedent, which was set in part from the examples you describe, is that you could be more defensive at the end of the race and get away with it. Barnhart's ruling here goes against that precedent. |
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Post by SWT500 on Jul 26, 2010 13:02:33 GMT -5
It's just a shame that it came to this. I believe, from being there and being in many driver/spotter meetings, that his warnings went unheeded. Last week at Toronto might have been the last straw. The larger issue should have been addressed some time ago and that is on Mr. Barnhart.
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Post by trevor83 on Jul 26, 2010 15:50:38 GMT -5
I think I figured out an answer to my question about Will. Will must have paid attention in the meeting and saw this restart as his chance to get the pass done. Anticipating the inside to be open coming off the corner he probably hit the p2p intending to drive down the inside. When Helio didn't move you can see Will wiggle a bit and look outside, then get back in line, then look again and finally commit to the outside. Helio knew what Will was going to do but Helio forgot about the definition of the rule from the meeting. I still think the clarification of the rule stinks on a road course like this one. There was so much race track for Will to use it was ridiculous.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2010 18:11:58 GMT -5
Defensive driving has always been a part of racing. If Barnhart had been officiating the 1982 Indy 500 he would have taken the win from Johncock because of his last lap chop block on Mears. But you NEVER heard Mears criticize Gordy for that move. He also would have taken the 1992 win from Unser Jr for his weaving down the front stretch (only back then it was to break the draft, not to block). Barnhart likes to micromanage to the point of telling teams the pole sitter must lead into the first turn at Indy! He won't be happy until they are racing slot cars.
You are 100% correct Michael!!! Brian Barnhart was a horses [expletive deleted] driver and he is a horse [expletive deleted] official! This is one of the reasons that the IZOD/Penske Ganassi Open Wheel Racing League needs a HUGE overhaul!!! Chip, who I call the "Tom Arnold of Racing," is horse [expletive deleted] as well! I never thought I'd end up defending a Penske Driver......Michael, the main reasons you never heard Rick Mears complain in 1982 was that Mears had class.....If Gutless Brian was around in 1963, he'd had taken the 500 Victory from Parnelli Jones as well. To show you what kind of "man' Barnhart is?.......gutless little Brain ran and hid in his trailer......Typical Horses [expletive deleted]! Like the drill Sargent says in the GIEGO Commercail...."Maybe we should go over and find a spine for you in man-be pan-be land, you gutless Jackwagon!" Best to you! Russ |
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Post by indy on Jul 26, 2010 22:46:28 GMT -5
No swearing
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Post by trevor83 on Jul 26, 2010 23:43:58 GMT -5
Defensive driving has always been a part of racing. If Barnhart had been officiating the 1982 Indy 500 he would have taken the win from Johncock because of his last lap chop block on Mears. But you NEVER heard Mears criticize Gordy for that move. He also would have taken the 1992 win from Unser Jr for his weaving down the front stretch (only back then it was to break the draft, not to block). Barnhart likes to micromanage to the point of telling teams the pole sitter must lead into the first turn at Indy! He won't be happy until they are racing slot cars.
You are 100% correct Michael!!! Brian Barnhart was a horses [expletive deleted] driver and he is a horse [expletive deleted] official! This is one of the reasons that the IZOD/Penske Ganassi Open Wheel Racing League needs a HUGE overhaul!!! Chip, who I call the "Tom Arnold of Racing," is horse [expletive deleted] as well! I never thought I'd end up defending a Penske Driver......Michael, the main reasons you never heard Rick Mears complain in 1982 was that Mears had class.....If Gutless Brian was around in 1963, he'd had taken the 500 Victory from Parnelli Jones as well. To show you what kind of "man' Barnhart is?.......gutless little Brain ran and hid in his trailer......Typical Horses [expletive deleted]! Like the drill Sargent says in the GIEGO Commercail...."Maybe we should go over and find a spine for you in man-be pan-be land, you gutless Jackwagon!" Best to you! Russ Really, when did Barnhardt drive? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2010 0:22:30 GMT -5
OOPS.....my bad. Barnhart wasn't the driver I thought he was....He was the rear tire changer on Al Unser Jr.'s 92 winner.....Doesn't matter, he was still gutless yesterday and made the IZOD/Penske Ganassi Open Wheel Spec Racing League look like fools!
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Post by indycals on Jul 27, 2010 0:24:14 GMT -5
At least when that umpire in Detroit cost their pitcher a perfect game, he MANNED UP to his error. As a result the Detroit crowd gave him a standing ovation the next night. Barnhart is a mouse.
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Post by trevor83 on Jul 27, 2010 7:29:23 GMT -5
OOPS.....my bad. Barnhart wasn't the driver I thought he was....He was the rear tire changer on Al Unser Jr.'s 92 winner.....Doesn't matter, he was still gutless yesterday and made the IZOD/Penske Ganassi Open Wheel Spec Racing League look like fools! Gutless would have been to not call the infraction and penalize all the other drivers who abided by the rule. And he finally penalized a Penske driver and people still aren't happy. |
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Post by trevor83 on Jul 27, 2010 7:30:48 GMT -5
That was a shameful call. That looked like good racing to me, and Helio only moved over to take the proper line into the corner. That makes the series look so amateurish. Guys, take a look at the video now posted on the Indycar website. They set a rule disallowing defensive driving. So, I don't think the call could be "amateurish", though maybe you could call the rule "amateurish". Bingo |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2010 12:42:03 GMT -5
Gutless would have been to not call the infraction and penalize all the other drivers who abided by the rule. And he finally penalized a Penske driver and people still aren't happy. Trevor, No...maybe if the SOB had been a driven some, he would have known what was going on and thought twice about it. That's why, as bad as some thought he was, Harlen Fangler "knew" what it was like because he had "driver" experience. Barnhart was gutless by hiding after he made his BS call. THAT IS GUTLESS and did the IZOD/Penske Ganassi Spec Open Wheel Racing Series no good at all. Best to you! Russ |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2010 12:44:54 GMT -5
At least when that umpire in Detroit cost their pitcher a perfect game, he MANNED UP to his error. As a result the Detroit crowd gave him a standing ovation the next night. Barnhart is a mouse. Best to yuo! Russ |
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Post by SWT500 on Jul 27, 2010 14:45:14 GMT -5
I believe Trevor's point is right on. As I mentioned before, Barnhart's actions were LONG overdue. Just to clear the record, Brian was a mechanic for Galles, then at Foyt and lastly at Penske. He has been previously accused of favoring Penske, his former employer. I'm sure there is more to this on the surface of this incident. It's likely we will not get an explanation from him but perhaps a more detailed one is due. On another note, if some of you noticed the white haired gentleman trying to restrain Helio, he is Owen Snyder Sr., a driver of some note from Wisconsin and the father of Owen Snyder, long time crew member.
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Post by indycals on Jul 28, 2010 10:45:01 GMT -5
Now Barnhart is insulting the fans - quoted in an article from Rich Nye: "Do the fans understand why things are happening and what they're watching?"
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Post by stuboyle on Jul 28, 2010 11:52:10 GMT -5
I think Curt Cavin said it pretty well here: "Izod IndyCar Series participants agreed Tuesday: Helio Castroneves violated a rule unique to this form of racing. Just what to do about the rule is open for debate." Here is the link: www.indystar.com/article/20100728/SPORTS0107/7280332/1052/SPORTS01/Normal-driving-line-onlyI think what would be interesting would be to study how defensive driving has changed over time. I suspect, and let me know if you have a differing opinion, that it was 1970 and we witnessed the defensive driving that occurred on Sunday, that we would be mortified of Helio's move. Gradually, overtime, it became the rule rather than the exception. Opinions? |
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It seems the 24 hours of Le Mans seems to be missing let alone any International race of importance. perhaps a Triple Crown of here in the States, but...a feat none the less. Yee-haw. We Americans seem to think the "World Series" really includes the world! This be not so...
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