Indy 500 history & traditions

["500 LEGENDS"]

I need some help in compiling a list of all the different Indianapolis 500 Mile race traditions we can come up with. Example: Why is the track 2 12 miles long...Why do they let balloons loose before the start...Why 33 cars...etc...and as many as everyone can come up with. I would really appreciate everyone's help in explaining all these traditions and track history questions. I am building a website that will have a specific section dedicated to the history and traditions of the 500 mile race. PUT ON YOUR THINKING CAPS RACE FANS!

Thanks,
John

[indycals]

I don't know why they release the balloons, but I have a couple of balloon related tidbits:

The red, blue and yellow circles on the package of Wonder Bread... they represent the balloons from IMS. Wonder Bread's HQ was in Indianapolis and they could see the balloons from there. www.ehow.com/about_5397591_history-wonder-bread.html

Inside the fourth turn at IMS, there is a restroom. On that restroom there is a balloon painted on the wall. That balloon on the restroom commemorates an event in 1966 when for the 50th running of the 500 they decided to recreate the inaugural balloon race at IMS. One of the balloons got away without lifting off, crashed into an outhouse in the fourth turn, surprising the lady who was inside. Ever since then there have been many different restrooms in that spot, and they've all had a balloon painted on them.

[Deleted]

Okay John...

A few things I know about the Speedway. You should really get in touch with my good friend Bob Clidinst, he has forgotten more about the Speedway than most will ever know.

The reason for the balloon release before the start of the race is to commemorate the first race at the Speedway, which was a balloon race in 1909.

In 1936 two traditions started at the Speedway. The winner getting the pace car and the drinking of the milk in Victory Lane. Winner Louis Meyer had an upset stomach in Victory Lane and was on the verge of up-chucking, when he turn to someone and asked for some buttermilk. His mother always used it to cure an upset stomach and the newspaper had a photo of him drinking milk, the National Dairy Counsel saw it and gave Meyer a check and it's been going on ever since,.....except for 1993 when Emmo drank Orange Juice. I got this from Louis Meyer himself when I interviewed him in 1992, so the first winner to drink milk was in 1936 and it was Louis Meyer and buttermilk.

As for 33 cars, I know it has something to do with the number of feet allowed per car and track space. Hope this helps.

Best to you!

Russ

[Deleted]

Correct Russ.

The reason the number 33 was chosen was based on an American Automotive Association recommendation of at least 400 feet of track per car on the 2 ½ mile oval.

Stu

[professor]

Call Donald Davidson at the Speedway or get his book. There are just too many to address.

[Deleted]

Feb 26, 2010 9:59:49 GMT -5 professor said:

Call Donald Davidson at the Speedway or get his book. There are just too many to address.

That is.....If Donald Davidson will even talk to you. My experience with Mr. Davidson is willing to talk you, if and only if you are willing to pay him or take his class before May he teaches. The one to really talk to is Bob Clidinst, who will know as much if not more. Too bad Bob Laycock is dead, he was the only one that could prove Davidson wrong, which he hates and would cause Donald to leave rooms with one sentance...."Are you really sure about that, Donald?" Classic!


Best to you!

Russ

[Deleted]

Here's one that will get you to win many "Bar-Bets" with...and I got this from the source!

Why is there a parade lap before the pace lap at the Indianapolis 500 each year?

This "tradition" goes back to when the WWI Aces and Great American "Humorist", Eddie Rickenbacker owned the Speedway. It seems, according to "Spider" Matlock and Jigger Johnson, two well known riding mechanics of the era.

Many of their fellow Riding Mechanics did care too much for their job and the lack of safety it brought to them. As one of them put it, "You think I'm going to ride 500 miles with that crazy bastard without a drink?" So, many of the Riding Mechanics took a little "Liquid Courage" just before the start of the race and had no place to dispose of their empties, so they would toss them onto the infield grass. Mr. Rickenbacker, not known for his sense of humor was appalled by this practice, but being a former driver himself, understood. So, he allowed one "extra" lap so the riding mechanics could properly disposed of the empty bottles along the back straight and not in view of the paying public in the grandstands.

So at one point, where they thought they would not be seen, the riding mechanics would raise up and toss the empty bottles onto the infield grass, thus looking like they were waving to someone. Thus, the tradition of the parade laps was born in the mid 1930's. This piece of history was brought to you courtesy of several old riding mechanics at a round table discussion at Ginger's Beverage Inn....Straight from the source!


Best to you!

Russ

P.S. - Sometime the truth is better than the legend!

["500 LEGENDS"]

Thank you guys so much for the stories...I will be using all of them...THANKS!! I have to comment on Michael's story because of an experience I had and I hadn't heard Michaels story of the balloon knocking over the toilet...I do remember seeing the balloon on that crapper though...TOO FUNNY!! Does anyone really remember those old restrooms? Man...it was just like going to an outhouse. I remember one year waiting outside one after a race in the late 70's. It was so hot...My brother and I were just about through the door...the smell...OH MY GOD...strong enough to knock a weaker person out...and a drunk walks up to the door where we were standing...stepped in front of us and poked his head inside the door and took a couple of sniffs...looked at both of us and said...I BELIEVE I'LL JUST (expletive) MY PANTS!!!...and off he stumbled...We both laughed til we were crying it was so funny!! I found an old picture of the insde of one of those old restrooms and showed my boy's and shared my story...they could not believe we actually used them...I assured them I only did #1 that I always remembered what the drunk said. This younger generation is so spoiled with the new modern facilities!! Keep those stories of the Speedway's traditions coming!! THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!
John

["500 LEGENDS"]

I didn't know that about the parade lap either Russ...Thanks!Those riding mechanics really had to have balls...think about it...it is just like when we are passengers in our wives cars times 10!!

[Deleted]

John......

How about some tough Indy 500 Trivia? These are questions that have stumped Donald Davidson......Here it goes....

1. Who was the last driver to wear a Cromwell Drivers Helmut during the 500 and what year?

2. Who was the first driver to wear a helmet that covered his whole face and what was the year?

3. What does the "T" after the number on all Indy Cars today? Believe it or not, this one Donald Davidson blew on the air during his radio show and took a great deal of crap about it too....

4. Who was the last riding Mechanic to be part of a winning Indy 500 race....And, what year?

5. Name the three drivers to win the Indy 500 on both, Goodyear and Firestone Tires?

6. Name the two divers to win the last Indy 500 they entered as a driver?....and why was it thier last 500?

7. When was the last time a car with the number 13 was entered the Indy 500?

8. With the Oscars this week......What was the first Motion Picture to have footage shot and a story line involving the Indy 500? For extra points...who was the star?

9. Besides winning the 500, what do Jimmy Bryan, A.J. Foyt and Mario Andretti have in common at the Speedway?

10. Why was the Mormon Wasp given the number 32 in the first Indy 500?


Well, those are some brain teasers! Best to you!

Russ

[Calvin]

I'm just a rookie to history so........

I think I know a few

Feb 26, 2010 23:57:12 GMT -5 @oldcalhoun said:

2. Who was the first driver to wear a helmet that covered his whole face and what was the year?

Was it Dan Gurney?

3. What does the "T" after the number on all Indy Cars today? Believe it or not, this one Donald Davidson blew on the air during his radio show and took a great deal of crap about it too....

I think the T stands for backup car?

5. Name the three drivers to win the Indy 500 on both, Goodyear and Firestone Tires?

AJ, Al and Bobby

6. Name the two divers to win the last Indy 500 they entered as a driver?....and why was it thier last 500?

B Unser (He wanted to go out on top) I dont know the other?

[indycals]

Feb 26, 2010 23:57:12 GMT -5 @oldcalhoun said:

2. Who was the first driver to wear a helmet that covered his whole face and what was the year?

I'll say Dan Gurney, 1968

Feb 26, 2010 23:57:12 GMT -5 @oldcalhoun said:

5. Name the three drivers to win the Indy 500 on both, Goodyear and Firestone Tires?

Aj Foyt, Al Unser, Arie Luyendyk (Bobby U was a Goodyear guy in 68)

Feb 26, 2010 23:57:12 GMT -5 @oldcalhoun said:

6. Name the two divers to win the last Indy 500 they entered as a driver?....and why was it thier last 500?

Two?

Gil DeFerran (retired at end of season), Juan Montoya (left for F1) Jacques Villeneuve (left for F1), Bobby Unser (retired at end of season), Sam Hanks (retired in victory lane), Ray Keech (killed two weeks later in an LSR attempt), Ray Harroun (retired in victory lane)

Feb 26, 2010 23:57:12 GMT -5 @oldcalhoun said:

9. Besides winning the 500, what do Jimmy Bryan, A.J. Foyt and Mario Andretti have in common at the Speedway?

They all drove for Al Dean at one point

Feb 26, 2010 23:57:12 GMT -5 @oldcalhoun said:

10. Why was the Marmon Wasp given the number 32 in the first Indy 500?

Numbers were assigned by the order their entry was received.

[indycals]

Here's one: What Indy 500 winner came out of retirement... at age 89 ... and won an automobile race?

[Calvin]

Feb 27, 2010 1:06:36 GMT -5 indycals said:

(Bobby U was a Goodyear guy in 68)

I was trying to play fair, I didn't look it up. If I would of built the model I would of known that. ;D

[indy]

In 1993 Emmo did drink the milk. He did initially push it away to drink from the OJ which was because he had business interests in oranges. But within a few minutes he was drinking the milk along with the OJ. Since the OJ had more dominant exposure, the fact that he did later drink the milk gets overlooked.

Jordan

[trevor83]

Feb 26, 2010 23:57:12 GMT -5 @oldcalhoun said:

3. What does the "T" after the number on all Indy Cars today? Believe it or not, this one Donald Davidson blew on the air during his radio show and took a great deal of crap about it too....

T stood for 'test' or 'temporary'. Backup cars used to be for testing.

Feb 26, 2010 23:57:12 GMT -5 @oldcalhoun said:

7. When was the last time a car with the number 13 was entered the Indy 500?

EJ Viso 2009, prior to that Greg Ray in 2004 and 2003. If my research is correct it was only used one other time by George Mason in 1914.

Feb 26, 2010 23:57:12 GMT -5 @oldcalhoun said:

10. Why was the Mormon Wasp given the number 32 in the first Indy 500?

From Johnson's Indy 500:

In 1911, car numbers and starting positions were assigned by order of entry in the mail. Some exceptions were made, and some numbers, such as #13, were not used, therefore the lineup was not quite in numerical order from top to bottom. One notable exception was eventual winner Ray Harroun. He secured an exception to use #32, which was used to help market his Marmon "Wasp."

Other interesting tidbits I found:

Every number #1 through #99 has been used for the Indianapolis 500 at least once. By the mid-1970s, every number had been used at least once except for #50. In 1979, car #50 was used for the first time, and at that point, all numbers #1 through #99 had been used.

For many years, rules prohibited the use of number #13.

In 1919, car numbers were assigned the morning of the race in order to foil "bootleg" program sellers.

For many years, numbers ending in "0" were not allowed except for #10. Scoring officials commonly called out several numbers out loud and did not want those numbers to be confused if followed by a single digit. For example, if the official called out "20, 3" quickly, it many be confused for "23." In modern times, computers keep score of the race, and this rule was no longer necessary.

Rules have never allowed the use of three-digit numbers.

["500 LEGENDS"]

Trevor...In regards to the #s on the cars...it should be against the rules to have two didget #'s that begin with "0"...ex: #02,#06. And the # 0 should not be allowed as a single digit #. Too NASCAR for me and makes the cars look busch league. Neuman/Haas/ Lanigan Racing Team get "REAL" #'s! Just my opinion.

[trevor83]

I agree, I think its goofy too. Here's another note from Johnson's Indy 500 ( johnsonindy500.trackforum.com/ - great site)

For many years, rules did not allow numbers such as #0, #00, and #01 through #09. Through 2006, none of those numbers had ever been used. In NASCAR and other forms of racing, those numbers are common. In 2007, Vision Racing, incidently co-owned by Speedway President Tony George, entered a car with number #02, it became the first car with a "zero-" prefix. Since then, "zero-" prefix numbers have been allowed in the IndyCar Series. In 2008, following the unification with Champ Car, some former Champ Car teams used a "zero-" prefix number. It was an effort, for the 2008 transitional season, to maintain their previously chosen single-digit number that they had planned to use had there been a Champ Car season. In 2009, the practice continued, largely by the same teams.

[racerbrown]

i'm half guessing on michael's question.
wasn't it lou meyer winning an electric car race?
duane

[indycals]

Feb 27, 2010 14:13:02 GMT -5 racerbrown said:

i'm half guessing on michael's question.
wasn't it lou meyer winning an electric car race?
duane

Yes!

[Deleted]

Well....As I can see it, many of you got the answers so I guess it wasn't so tough...or was it? Here's the answers...

1. Who was the last driver to wear a Cromwell Drivers Helmut during the 500 and what year?

1 Answer - It was Dick Rathamann...or was it Jim, (Those of that know the real story of the brothers will get the joke.) Dick Rathmann was the last driver allowed by the Speedway to wear the good old Cromwell Drivers Helmut in the 1964 500, where he started 12th & finished 7th.

2. Who was the first driver to wear a helmet that covered his whole face and what was the year?

2 Answer - Many of you got this one correct!...It was indeed Dan Gurney in 1968.

3. What does the "T" after the number on all Indy Cars today? Believe it or not, this one Donald Davidson blew on the air during his radio show and took a great deal of crap about it too....

3 Answer - It does mean "Test" + or back up car.....The day after Donald Davidson blew this question on his call in radio show, he was angered to find that someone had placed a paper sign on his chair with a big letter "T" on it. Too funny!

4. Who was the last riding Mechanic to be part of a winning Indy 500 race....And, what year?

4 Answer - 1937 and it was Jigger Johnson who rode with Wilbur Shae in his "Pay Car.' Legend has it that Shaw noticed the oil pressure gage was running low on the straights and would climb back to almost normal when he took his foot off during the turns. With a lap lead of second place Ralph Hepburn, Shaw figured he could back off the gas and start to run slow laps, letting Hepburn unlap himself and still win the race....Which is what he did. Shaw was holding his foot next to the transmission casing which was very hot against his leather shoe. He had yelled at Johnson sitting next to him to let him know when Hepburn was closing in on him. This Johnson did on the last lap of the race, allowing Shaw to press his badly burnt foot down on the accelerator giving him his first 500 Victory.

5. Name the three drivers to win the Indy 500 on both, Goodyear and Firestone Tires?

5 Answer - A.J. Foyt 61 & 64 on Firestone Tires, 67 & 77 on Goodyear Tires. Al Unser Sr. 70 & 71 on Firestone Tires, 78 & 87 on Goodyear Tires, Arie Luyendyk 90 on Goodyear Tires and 97 on Firestone Tires.

6. Name the two divers to win the last Indy 500 they entered as a driver?....and why was it their last 500?

6. Answer - This one I had a brain fart on...but I was looking for two names. Sam Hanks and Booby Unser...but Micheal at Indycals was correct! But, Gil DeFerran (retired at end of season), Juan Montoya (left for F1) Jacques Villeneuve (left for F1) _ I don;t count them as Indy Car Drivers anymore, but you are correct!), Bobby Unser (retired at end of season), Sam Hanks (retired in victory lane), Ray Keech (killed two weeks later in an LSR attempt)....(Well, he died so I don't count him.) , Ray Harroun (retired in victory lane) TOTAL BRAIN FART ON MY PART!! How could I forget Ray Harroun!?!?!?

7. When was the last time a car with the number 13 was entered the Indy 500?

7 Answer -Too many got this one correct/

8. With the Oscars this week......What was the first Motion Picture to have footage shot and a story line involving the Indy 500? For extra points...who was the star?

8 Answer - Look for it on Turner Classic Movies in May. "The Crowd Roars" with Jimmy Cagney. Many films have had the Indy 500 as a backdrop, including "Winning" with Paul Newman and Bob Clidisnt....bay far he best of the bad lot. At least "winning" didn't suck like "Driven" did.....what a stinkburger!!!

9. Besides winning the 500, what do Jimmy Bryan, A.J. Foyt and Mario Andretti have in common at the Speedway?

9 Answer - All drove for Al Dean with Clint Brawner has Chief Mechanic

10. Why was the Mormon Wasp given the number 32 in the first Indy 500?

"In 1911, car numbers and starting positions were assigned by order of entry in the mail. Some exceptions were made, and some numbers, such as #13, were not used, therefore the lineup was not quite in numerical order from top to bottom. One notable exception was eventual winner Ray Harroun. He secured an exception to use #32, which was used to help market his Marmon "Wasp.""

Well somewhat true...I like the story I got from Bob Laycock better. The car numbers were assigned according to the way the entry of the cars were taken in order by the Speedway. Ray Harroun's "Marmon Wasp' was the Nordyke & Marmon Automobile Companies Car Number model Number 32....So the CEO and other owners thought it would be a grand idea if the race car had the same number on it during race day. So the Marmon Company dispatched a young worked to the Speedway Office to get the numbers 31 for Ralph Mulford's car and the the number 32 for the "Wasp." When the young lad that worked for the Nordyke & Marmon Company got here, the Speedway had only issued 29 Numbers, so he had to wait to get the numbers his boss wanted. He stood around for over an hour when four guys came up, and he young lad tried to but in..... According to legend, this was met with some disapproval by the four other men, but the young lad that was representing the Nordyke & Marmon Company was a strapping lad, thus, he got he the numbers his bosses wanted on their cars.

Now this may be total bull!....... but I subscribe to the "Man Who Shot Liberty Valence" effect on history...."When truth meets the legend, print the legend." Makes for better reading.

Best to you!

Russ

[Deleted]

Michael,

My guess is Louis Meyer. When I finally interviewed Mr. Meyer in 1992, his daughter answered the phone and said her father would be back after 5:00Pm to call then. H was out riding his jet ski and that she was afraid that she was going to have to take away his jet ski privileges due the fact that the Lake Havasu Patrol Officers had told her that Louis Meyer, Three Time Indy 5600 Champion was scaring the locals on the lake to death with his reckless jet ski driving. Seems ol Louis like to drive the lake without abandon. True and funny!

Best to you!

Russ

[2lapsdown]

This story is for John. I attended qualifying for many years and did my share of recycling beer in those famous "restrooms". I swore I'd never do the other deed as there were no doors on the stalls and I wasn't willing to share my experience. One unfortunate pole day the need got the best of me so I waited until Rick Mears attempt came up. I told my buddy to mark down his lap times and off I went, figuring nobody but me would leave their seats with The Rocket coming out. I had no more than taken my "seat" when they threw a yellow before Rick came out. Needless to say within minutes my solitude was broken and I made all kinds of new friends. Ahh memories.

[indy]

That's funny right there! LOL

Feb 27, 2010 15:22:29 GMT -5 @oldcalhoun said:

4. Who was the last riding Mechanic to be part of a winning Indy 500 race....And, what year?

4 Answer - 1937 and it was Jigger Johnson who rode with Wilbur Shae in his "Pay Car.' Legend has it that Shaw noticed the oil pressure gage was running low on the straights and would climb back to almost normal when he took his foot off during the turns. With a lap lead of second place Ralph Hepburn, Shaw figured he could back off the gas and start to run slow laps, letting Hepburn unlap himself and still win the race....Which is what he did. Shaw was holding his foot next to the transmission casing which was very hot against his leather shoe. He had yelled at Johnson sitting next to him to let him know when Hepburn was closing in on him. This Johnson did on the last lap of the race, allowing Shaw to press his badly burnt foot down on the accelerator giving him his first 500 Victory.

Russ built this car with figures and everything - very well representing the mechanic yelling into the ear of his driver in the last turn.

Jordan

[Deleted]

Feb 27, 2010 22:16:20 GMT -5 indy said:

That's funny right there! LOL

Feb 27, 2010 15:22:29 GMT -5 @oldcalhoun said:

4. Who was the last riding Mechanic to be part of a winning Indy 500 race....And, what year?

4 Answer - 1937 and it was Jigger Johnson who rode with Wilbur Shaw in his "Pay Car.' Legend has it that Shaw noticed the oil pressure gage was running low on the straights and would climb back to almost normal when he took his foot off during the turns. With a lap lead of second place Ralph Hepburn, Shaw figured he could back off the gas and start to run slow laps, letting Hepburn unlap himself and still win the race....Which is what he did. Shaw was holding his foot next to the transmission casing which was very hot against his leather shoe. He had yelled at Johnson sitting next to him to let him know when Hepburn was closing in on him. This Johnson did on the last lap of the race, allowing Shaw to press his badly burnt foot down on the accelerator giving him his first 500 Victory.

Russ built this car with figures and everything - very well representing the mechanic yelling into the ear of his driver in the last turn.

Jordan

I built the model, Gary Doucette of Front Motor Models made the kit and my very good friend Fred Lombardo made the figures and painted them for me. (Bill Jorgensen does a better kit of this car!)I was part of the threesome that did this moment in 500 history. I recommend to everyone that can get a copy of "Gentlemen, Start Your Engines" by Wilbur Shaw, to get a copy and read it! Wilbur Shaw had more to do with why we have an Indianapolis Motor Speedway than most of us know! There's your savior of the Indy 500......Shaw and Tony Hulman's bank account.

Best to you!

Russ

[Deleted]

Back to Emmo and the OJ.. Last year while driving back home from the Speedway, I was listening to Davidsons show and the OJ thing came up with a caller asking about the story. He stuttered and stammered around and you would have thought a cross had been waved in front of Draculas face. For whatever reason, he was pained to talk about it, didn't want to talk about it and considered it "inappropriate". Then the statement that put the iceing on the cake; "We're here on this program to talk about warm and fuzzy things, not traumatic incidents like this." I thought to myself, "what's the big deal here...it's Speedway history." Just another DD moment I thought I'd throw in for Russ. ;D

[Deleted]

Larry,

It's not that I dislike Donald Davidson, I kind of like him, even with his arrogance. What I don't care for his total lack of respect for those he doesn't feel is his equal or people that have helped him in the past. My first experience with Donald was at the Speedway Museum where he brushed me off twice when I asked him simple questions. Then once Donald saw me with Bob Laycock, suddenly I was his "best friend in the world!", until Mr. Laycock died.

I also have an audio tape of Davidson bad mouthing the man who gave him his start on the radio....Sid Collins. Now, I feel that still Sid Collins was the master of calling the Indianapolis 500 for the radio. He was class and in a class by himself. I have several of the the old 500 Broadcasts from the 1960's and the one where he introduced Davidson to the public, 1964. Lets just say Davidson's comments about Collins were wrong and displayed a total lack of respect for the man that gave him his "break", so to speak.

I still feel that Sid Collins is way, way, WAY above those that have followed him in broadcasting "The Greatest Spectacle in Racing," although the men that followed have tried to do their best, Collins was in a class by himself, ( Like Vin Scully in baseball)...and certainly better than Davidson. Lets just say I put Donald Davidson in the same boat with Carl Hungness......I have dealt with both and don't care if I ever do again.

Best to you!

Russ

[Deleted]

I don't have a total aversion to the guy, I like to listen to him, it's just that he was kind of going "out there" over this little milk vs. oj story.

[Deleted]

Indulge me if you will all......



These are much better photos of the three on a kit....Gary Doucette, Fred Lombardo and myself. I am proud of it, so just indulge me if you will. Legend has it that Shaw noticed the oil pressure gage was running low on the straights and would climb back to almost normal when he took his foot off during the turns. With a lap lead of second place Ralph Hepburn, Shaw figured he could back off the gas and start to run slow laps, letting Hepburn unlap himself and still win the race....Which is what he did. Shaw was holding his foot next to the transmission casing which was very hot against his leather shoe. He had yelled at Johnson sitting next to him to let him know when Hepburn was closing in on him. This Johnson did on the last lap of the race, allowing Shaw to press his badly burnt foot down on the accelerator giving him his first 500 Victory. Shaw's feet were burnt so badly that when the track doctor cut off his shoe on his right foot, a good chunk of meat from it came as well.



Allow me to brag abut Fred Lombardo. He is a great guy and one hell of a figure maker and painter. He made both of these figures for Gary to put into his kits, and did figures for Chris Etzel as well. His work is second to none and I 've always been proud to call him my friend. If Fred knew I was doing this, he'd be angry at me, but I believe in giving credit when and where it is due!. Nice work Fred and thank you!

Best to all, and thank you!

Russ