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Post by jimhamill on Jul 2, 2020 14:39:06 GMT -5
I've immersed myself in Novi books since getting Lance's great kit and began to wonder about the engine
It was what made the Novi unique - has it ever been modeled in any scale?
Jim
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putt
Rookie
Posts: 55
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Post by putt on Jul 2, 2020 17:56:52 GMT -5
The 1/43rd SMTS kit has a partial novi engine it only has head detail on one side. Bob
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Post by oldphotos on Jul 2, 2020 18:10:33 GMT -5
I don't know of any Novi engine in any scale, A start for a 1/25 scale Novi would be to use 2 Offy Revell midgets heads and a supercharger from the Hawk Mercedes kit and a lot of scratch building.
Oldphotos
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Post by billj on Jul 2, 2020 18:29:37 GMT -5
There's a talented person in Germany that draws these in 3D CAD and then 3D prints them. Perhaps you could talk him into a 1/25th NOVI. perhaps a 1/25th Ford DOHC. He does the Ford in 1/24 which makes agreat display engine. www.modelbuilderswh.com/collections/engine-kits |
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Post by indydog on Jul 2, 2020 19:19:40 GMT -5
Does anyone know of a set of detailed plans for the Novi? I'd be willing to try and scratchbuild one if there were plans.
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Post by lance on Jul 2, 2020 20:57:35 GMT -5
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Post by jimhamill on Jul 2, 2020 21:45:56 GMT -5
Lance,
Fantastic!
I'm pretty new to modeling open wheel cars & thought I could find a model of the engine in some scale to build & display along side 1 of your models
I'm surprised that 1 of the most legendary engines in Indy history hasn't been modeled
Hope you can keep working on it & see it thru - I'll be buying some if you do
Jim
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jj66
Podium Finisher
Posts: 364
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Post by jj66 on Jul 3, 2020 7:16:06 GMT -5
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Post by jimhamill on Jul 3, 2020 10:01:57 GMT -5
Juanjo,
Great work as always & thanks for showing how you did it - were you able to find tech drawings/dimensions anywhere or did you use "eyeball engineering"?
Is this a car that's currently on your workbench?
Hope all in your home are well & you're finding time to work on your wonderful creations
Jim
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Post by billj on Jul 3, 2020 10:05:34 GMT -5
I am speechless Juanjo. You are always amazing.
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Post by jimhamill on Jul 3, 2020 10:15:36 GMT -5
Does anyone know of a set of detailed plans for the Novi? I'd be willing to try and scratchbuild one if there were plans. I'm thinking the same but haven't found any tech drawings or dimensions anywhere - can find pics of the engine from different angles but so far that's all Jim |
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Post by alwaysindy on Jul 3, 2020 11:01:56 GMT -5
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jj66
Podium Finisher
Posts: 364
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Post by jj66 on Jul 4, 2020 4:00:36 GMT -5
Good source Tim! Thanks for sharing |
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jj66
Podium Finisher
Posts: 364
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Post by jj66 on Jul 4, 2020 4:09:49 GMT -5
Juanjo, Great work as always & thanks for showing how you did it - were you able to find tech drawings/dimensions anywhere or did you use "eyeball engineering"? Is this a car that's currently on your workbench? Hope all in your home are well & you're finding time to work on your wonderful creations Jim Jim, we are well, I hope you and yours stay well too. In my knowledge no tech drawings availables for the Novi Engine. I used "eyeball engineering", keeping dimensions of the AMT Offy, adjusting them to my build, the 1964 Ferguson-Novi. I had a thread in the Indy Car Modeling Board but Tinypic destroyed it. Here you can see some pics.    |
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Post by billj on Jul 4, 2020 8:50:35 GMT -5
Awesome Juanjo  |
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Post by alwaysindy on Jul 4, 2020 11:24:01 GMT -5
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Post by indydog on Jul 4, 2020 15:42:01 GMT -5
I found that too. Although I'm not sure which version of the Novi that is. The blower appears to be exhaust driven which I know is not right.
I wonder if that's the "Offy V8" that George Bignotti tried to make work?
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Post by gwstexas on Jul 5, 2020 9:38:24 GMT -5
You may have already found it, but Rodger Huntington's book "Design ans Development of the Indy Car" has a nice drawing of the original Novi. I believe the drawing is a copy of Leo Goosen's blueprint.
Hope this helps.
Gary
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Post by eagle36 on Jul 5, 2020 17:16:21 GMT -5
Does anyone know of a set of detailed plans for the Novi? I'd be willing to try and scratchbuild one if there were plans. I have a series of walk around photos I took last year, at the Millers at the Milwaukee Mile event, of a dual plug, fuel injected Novi on an engine stand and a single plug carburetor engine installed in a car. I could e-mail them to you. Tom Glowacki |
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robh
Race Winner
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Post by robh on Jul 5, 2020 17:58:56 GMT -5
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Post by eagle36 on Jul 6, 2020 14:21:36 GMT -5
I just posted some of my photos to Google Drive: DSC00647.JPG DSC00648.JPG DSC00649.JPG DSC00650.JPG DSC00651.JPG DSC00659.JPG DSC00624.JPG DSC00629.JPG For the story of how Tom Malloy acquired his Novi collection and some fascinating pictures, go here: indyroadsters.webs.com/apps/blog/show/2167515-a-fish-storyTom Glowacki |
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Post by lolagt00 on Jul 6, 2020 14:37:33 GMT -5
Regarding the red #26 NOVI: Have a question that's bugged me for years ever since a I saw a Goodyear ad showing Foyt's tires good for another full race. Like the NOVI they have a portion of grooved tread with a slick area. I always thought this was the car alignment scrubbing off the rubber but it appears too thick and consistent. I DID read in a British "Motor Racing" magazine from the '60s that some racing tires were purposely cast partially slick for traction. Most early '60's Indy cars had these "Worn" tires. Can anyone confirm this?
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Post by indy on Jul 6, 2020 15:34:49 GMT -5
I just posted some of my photos to Google Drive: DSC00647.JPG DSC00648.JPG DSC00649.JPG DSC00650.JPG DSC00651.JPG DSC00659.JPG DSC00624.JPG DSC00629.JPG Tom, can you give the whole URL? Jordan |
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Post by eagle36 on Jul 6, 2020 17:49:25 GMT -5
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Post by billj on Jul 6, 2020 18:09:10 GMT -5
Thanks to everyone for the great pictures. Too bad a Novi powered car never won the 500. Sure made for some exciting racing over the years and some very cool race cars.
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Post by alwaysindy on Jul 7, 2020 12:53:37 GMT -5
Regarding the red #26 NOVI: Have a question that's bugged me for years ever since a I saw a Goodyear ad showing Foyt's tires good for another full race. Like the NOVI they have a portion of grooved tread with a slick area. I always thought this was the car alignment scrubbing off the rubber but it appears too thick and consistent. I DID read in a British "Motor Racing" magazine from the '60s that some racing tires were purposely cast partially slick for traction. Most early '60's Indy cars had these "Worn" tires. Can anyone confirm this? Lolagt00: I’ll try to answer from my research...(Walt probably knows more)...the tires were cast slick and grooves were hand cut into the right side of the tires because of centrifugal force...probably why they called them “handed?”...this was thought to better handle dust and debris...Then this happened: Just ask Mario Andretti, the first driver to use slick tires at the famed Indianapolis Motor Speedway. It happened during a Firestone test in late 1960s when the racing legend didn’t want to sit around and wait for the engineers to carve thin slits called “sipes” into the rubber before he tried a new tire. “We were running grooved tires at the time, but for the test they would bring slicks and the engineers would come up with different groove patterns and they would cut them into the tires on site,” Andretti said. Mario Andretti“We were coming down to crunch time and they had one set that had a different construction that they wanted to run, but they had to groove it and I said, 'Let's run it' and I went out and set a record,” laughed Andretti before adding: “That gave us a pretty good signal of the direction we should go.” At the time, engineers hand cut treads into the tires because it was thought it gave the car better grip, especially on a dirty racetrack. Well, at least until Andretti proved them wrong. By 1972, the grooves had disappeared pretty much everywhere in racing on tarmac. Some info: Gaston Chevrolet went 500 miles for the win in 1920...matched by A J Foyt in 1964 ( A J was on Firestone’s but wore a Goodyear fire suit)...and Mario went 500 miles on his right rear in 1969 because the wheel got stuck...nowadays the right side tires are slightly larger to create “stagger” Hope this helps! Tim |
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Post by oldphotos on Jul 8, 2020 15:10:52 GMT -5
The Roadster tires made by Firestone had treads on the right side of the tire both front and rear, these were designed for Indy. if you look at photos from Milwaukee or Monza they had treads over the whole width of the tire a different design than the tread pattern used at Indy .
Coker Tire has bought the rights to make these tires and they copied the original spec's in making the reproductions.
When Goodyear got involved with Indy Car racing it was total war between the 2 companies.
This WAS the Golden Years for Racing at Indy as both companies poured so much money at the teams. Dan Gurney biggest sponsor was Goodyear. Parnelli Jones racing Team was one of Firestones biggest teams, and almost all the driver sign with one or the other Tire company.
Watch the 1968 Riverside Indy Car race and watch the drivers switch cars to win the Championship. Mario started in the Dean Van Lines cars which retired then drove the 68 Turbine for 1 lap crashed and another car all in 1 race trying to win the championship.
With the Rear Engine cars the tires changed almost every year. This is how the teams got to do all there testing as the Tire companies paid for the track time, the tire companies found which tire design worked the best and the teams found out the best set up for there cars
Oldphotos
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Post by alterrenner on Jul 8, 2020 18:51:57 GMT -5
Here is how those Indy tires were explained to me when I was a lad. Please remember, I was a lad a long, long time age:
Item one) Bias-ply tires were not round If you drove faster than forty-five mph, the tires had to be trued, or "shaved" In those pre-interstate days, few drove faster than that. Racers did.
Item two) A shaved tire was faster. Tread squirm was reduced, and more surface area was in contact with the road.
Item three) A tire with grooves, or tread, ran somewhat cooler, and had a tendency to rid itself of debris quicker.
a treaded tire also had a thicker depth.
Item four) Bias-ply tires flexed in turns. Flexed a great deal. Less than half the surface was in contact with the track during turns at Indy.
Solution at Indy) A tire that was thicker and grooved on the right, outside area, where the load was greater in the turns, and closely shaved on the inside, left of the tire, where suspension setup allowed it to contact the track between the turns. Remember, too, that those STP Novis were four-wheel drive, so the tread rules would be even more unique.
--Frank
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