1/20 Decals for 93 Senna Penske Test

[Deleted]

Paul put me onto this new decal by Studio 27 and upon furthur investigation, this decal set is for the 1/20th scale Tamiya Indy Lola. (Roadcourse Version / Kmart) I guess you are to use these decals to convert the Lola into the 93 Penske that Aryron Senna tested in December of 1992.
Not yet sure what mods you would have to do to make the Lola a Penske but it looks pretty interesting.

www.mediamixhobby.com.sg/shop/st27limit011.html

Stu

[Deleted]

This is the description from the Best Balsa Kits web site.

PENSKE SENNA CART 1/20 TAMIYA LOLA T93/00
ST27.DC-lim-011, scale 1/20 stock: available
price: Euro 27.00
material : not specified

Limited edition decal from Studio 27: convert Tamiya's LOLA T93/00 model TAM20040 into the 1993 Penske #4/12 Indy CART car as test driven by A. SENNA

[Deleted]

The wheels and rear wing/tail assembly look to be the major changes that would be necessary. A pretty pricey sheet as well.
I toyed with the idea of trying to convert the Lola to a Penske but it would be pretty labor intensive.

G

[indy]

Thanks for the pics Greg!!

I saw those decals yesterday for the first time. I was a little surprised by them to say the least. Making an accurate Penske from the Lola would take lots of work I would think. Anyone know if S27 is doing a transkit, too!?!? I'd be in for a few.... I think I'd have to be in for about three LOL

I'd always wanted to build this car but was waiting for Bill to do another run of his 1/25 bodies.... but I can't find one much less three!!! Add to that, I still want a run of '94 Penske's, too!

I'd be interested in hearing everyone's opinion on this!

Jordan

[mrindy77]

I can only imagine what the transkit would cost if the decals are $40.

[Deleted]

For those who were interested in these decals but put off by the price, Stradasports has them listed for $26.

www.stradasportsstore.com/page147.html

G

[indy]

I emailed Kevin about these 2 months ago - he was out of stock then but I will found out what he has left and report back.

Jordan

[indy]

I heard back from Kevin and these are "in stock" at Strada. I have no idea if that means 1 set or 100 (okay probably not 100) but if you want them then this is a great retailer to use. In December, I'd probably have bought 3 sets but right now I am going to pass... I'm just not sure about decals this expensive without having a readily available 1/20 body to put them on.... ya' know???

Jordan

[elsapito]

Anyway, one of those cases in which you end up using just the steering wheel!! ;-)
Well, even if rims are the most obvious difference, the cars are sooooo different!
To begin with, I believe the Senna test car was a '92 Penske, right? It's different to the '93 car in that the tub is much bulkier. The '93 and the '94 cars are more similar. I'd say that the '92 one is still linked to the original Bennet design, the '88 PC17 even if it suffered a progressive thinning. Sidepods are more similar between '92 and '93.
That said, similar to the sleek '93 Lola? NO! S27 certainly did a long shot with these "conversions" though I do like the spirit of it
Yes the 93 Lola has so many different things... Tub is really low and thin, sidepods very low...
You better start from scratch.
OK, a bodywork "a la" Jorgensen can be done. But then you see that wings are different, suspensions too (penske front upper wishbones are wider I'd say) and wheel rims are different: the "six thick spoke" so typical since early eighties that the Lola uses don't match either the OZ six double spokes seen on pic or the '94 or later BBS... You cannot even take them from Tamiya F1 cars... even being BBS they are very different!
Yes it's tempting and a 1/20 Penske should impress, but I'd say it's out of reach...
Yet the '93 Lola is at least slightly similar to the '94 PC23. In terms of filosophy and measures, but there are too many problems...

[Deleted]

Hi guys,

I want to make this conversion. I already have the decals from studio 27, but I can't find any good pics of the car it self. The conversion will be from the 1/20 K-Mart lola, but it's different than the Chevrolet. Will it be a big conversion? I never done that before, but am willing to try. Any help or pointers is ver welcome and if you have pics, please post them here. As i'm new a this forum, I don't know how it works here. So if it's all to much, no problem. I was send here from the F1M forum, where I'm a member or visitor from

Best regards,
Lesley

[illeagle10]

Lesley, Yes this will be a large undertaking. There are many differences between the Penske PC-21 and the Lola T-93/00, there is nothing really in common with the two. Someone else on the site might want to try listing all the differences. Elsapito listed some of those differences earlier. I don't want to discourage you, but you may be better off scratch building the Penske. If you do decide to take a wack at it, keep us posted with WIPs. I would be quite interesting. Whatever you decide to do, good luck.

Jim

[illeagle10]

Nov 5, 2010 12:58:22 GMT -5 @eyckles said:

Hi guys,

I want to make this conversion. I already have the decals from studio 27, but I can't find any good pics of the car it self. The conversion will be from the 1/20 K-Mart lola, but it's different than the Chevrolet. Will it be a big conversion? I never done that before, but am willing to try. Any help or pointers is ver welcome and if you have pics, please post them here. As i'm new a this forum, I don't know how it works here. So if it's all to much, no problem. I was send here from the F1M forum, where I'm a member or visitor from

Best regards,
Lesley

In case you still want to give it a try here are some of the pictures I took in 92 and 93 at Nazareth Speedway.

Here is Mears in 92 at speed in practice,

Mears pulling into the pitts after practice in his Penske PC-21,

Mear's car in the paddock,

PC-21 at rest in the pitts.

Emmo's PC-21 being pushed out to the pitts.

Another shot of Emmo's car.

Rear cowling for Emmo's car.


Moving on to 1993 and the PC-22
Here's Emmo's car.

Tracy's cars.

Rear cowling from Tracy's car.

Right sidepod area of Tracy's "T" car.

Left sidepod area of Tracy's "T" car.

More of Emmo's car.




It's funny how the colors come out in pictures, because the Penske cars aren't red and white, they're actually fluorescent orange and bright white! You can also see the lines for the all conquering PC-23 taking shape for 1994. Well I hope the pictures help you out. I'm sure Jordan will enjoy them too!

Jim

[sandysixtysfan]

Great photos, thanks for posting.

Sandy

[Chris]

Nice stuff Jim, mind if I add them to my research/reference folders on Fotki? LMK Chris

[illeagle10]

Nov 7, 2010 12:10:31 GMT -5 Chris said:

Nice stuff Jim, mind if I add them to my research/reference folders on Fotki? LMK Chris

Not at all Chris, that's what they're there for, any and all to enjoy as reference for modeling. I have been fortunate over the years to get what I have and I don't mind sharing. Hopefully it'll inspire more to share. Just keep your folders handy for us!

Jim

[Deleted]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the pics. I think the biggest problem would be the wheels. Are there wheels available in 1/20 scale or is it best to scratchbuild them? But that is just from my point of view.

Lesley

[indycals]

I wonder if the wheels from the 1/20 Zanardi Reynard would work? Seems like they used similar wheels.

That said, if you think the wheels are the biggest problem, I salute you. I really want to see some WIPs of this.

[pje]

Check out the Tamiya 1/20th scale McLaren MP4/13. I think those wheels are very close. Size might be a bit of an issue, but they would be a good starting point.

Paul Erlendson

[Deleted]

I try'd to compare the wheels from the MP4/13 and they are close, but to small. The zanardi wheels looks much better, but i don't know where I could find them. I dont know what the biggest problem is, because I can't compare the lola with the Penske, because i don't have many pictures of the body. The nose, front an rear wing looks the same to me, but then again i don't have many references. If anybody knows what the biggest problem is, let me know.

Lesley

Lesley

[Deleted]

I think i know somebody who can make those wheels, but I don't know what the size of the wheels are. are the ones from the Mclaren MP4/13 13inch and what are those from the Penske?

Best regards,
Lesley

[indy]

IndyCar has run 15" rims for a long, long time

Jordan

[Deleted]

Hi Guys…
I also am intended to build this model and found out this thread with I got really excited about…

Can I get back the discussion?

One thing I have noticed is that the car with Senna made his test had two differences in comparison of the next season's car ('93). Let’s take a look:

Yellow: in the Senna´s car this part of the shell looks like more prominent (and doesn’t have that piece, with by the way I really don’t know what it is… can anyone tell me and what is its propose? )
Blue: the windshield in the Senna´s car is smaller then the other car so the edge is different as well.


Well, my points so far based on the Tamiya´s Lola 93 kit:

1) The Wheels: is not the major problem. Because only front wheels are different. The rear wheels are the same of the kit. In this case, is necessary to cut off the inner center and replace it with one correct model. I already talked with Alessandro (a friend of mine that is “THE MAN” when open wheel race turns the main subject) and he said the an Enkei´s model he have will fit perfectly (I don’t know yet what kit it came from…)
Take a look:


2) Body: In my opinion, it is the biggest problem, because besides the tub and the sidepods (very well pointed by elsapito), also there is a lot of small correction all along the shell (as I describe foward). There is a PC-22 resin transkit option made by Bill Jorgensen but as far I know, out of production.


Here, some differences I noticed (please, fell free to also add more points in case you notice)
First, one shoot of two 1:18 diecast models cars to help us in this comparison:


And here my points:


Let’s see:
(A) This piece looks smaller and not so curved than the Lola’s one.
(B) I can’t precisely if this part has the same format… I think so…
(C) As noticed above, this part is more prominent
(D) This piece is more curved than the Lola’s one but has almost the same size
(E) The windshield appears to be almost equal with Tamiya’s kit provides, once the Senna’s cars is not the same of the ’93 season’s car (as I noticed above)
(F) The rearview is totally different in terms of format and position
(G) In the Senna’s car this piece is higher than Lola’s car, and this entrance has also a different angle and format (in the die cast photos it is more ease noticed)
(H) This part of the front wing is basically the same shape but with more smooth curves
(I) Has a more curved silhouette than Lola’s nose
(J) Wings: the rear one has practically the same shape. There is a fin in the front wing that must be removed.

3) Engine: this is a medium problem… I’m not pretty sure yet because I can’t find some good references photos. As a matter of fact, I even know which Chevrolet´s engine was used: Chevy 265/B or Chevy 265/C. More problem: it is even more difficult to find out some good photos of 265/B than /C. Anyway, I guess two motors are quite the same… In this case, it is necessary to compare both blocks (Chevy 265 and Ford Cosworth XB) to check if it will be necessary make big modifications or just change the valve cover. Another issue is the gear box. I don’t know with is the same or at last very close, or in worst case, totally different…

4) Suspension and others minor differences: I’m pretty sure that these subjects are not a big deal for experts model builders. To change the front/rear wings; the wishbone’s thickness; cockpit pieces, etc etc etc will not be a big issue. Perhaps, the only problem it will find the Studio27 decal sheet available… (I already got mine rsrsrs).

That´s all folks!
I Hope we can discuss more about this project... I really want to build this model!

[illeagle10]

Well I think you've succeded in listing pretty many differences between the two cars, more than I could list! As I have told other members on the site, this will be a large undertaking. There are many differences between the Penske PC-21 and the Lola T-93/00. As you have just so readily pointed out there is nothing really in common with the two. I don't want to discourage you, but you may be better off scratch building the Penske. If you do decide to take a wack at it, keep us posted with WIPs. It would be quite interesting. As a matter of fact if you are successful in a conversion, you may want to make a master and sell resin copies of it! I'm sure there would be many customers!

"Mr. Phelps should you chose to accept this mission, should you or any member of you IM force be caught or killed, the secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions, this message will self destruct in five seconds! Good luck Jim(Drago)" LOL! ;D Whatever you decide to do, good luck.

Jim

[steinietrabi]

Mar 18, 2011 14:46:17 GMT -5 @Deleted said:

Hi Guys…
I also am intended to build this model and found out this thread with I got really excited about…

Can I get back the discussion?

One thing I have noticed is that the car with Senna made his test had two differences in comparison of the next season's car ('93). Let’s take a look:

Yellow: in the Senna´s car this part of the shell looks like more prominent (and doesn’t have that piece, with by the way I really don’t know what it is… can anyone tell me and what is its propose? )
Blue: the windshield in the Senna´s car is smaller then the other car so the edge is different as well.


Well, my points so far based on the Tamiya´s Lola 93 kit:

1) The Wheels: is not the major problem. Because only front wheels are different. The rear wheels are the same of the kit. In this case, is necessary to cut off the inner center and replace it with one correct model. I already talked with Alessandro (a friend of mine that is “THE MAN” when open wheel race turns the main subject) and he said the an Enkei´s model he have will fit perfectly (I don’t know yet what kit it came from…)
Take a look:


2) Body: In my opinion, it is the biggest problem, because besides the tub and the sidepods (very well pointed by elsapito), also there is a lot of small correction all along the shell (as I describe foward). There is a PC-22 resin transkit option made by Bill Jorgensen but as far I know, out of production.


Here, some differences I noticed (please, fell free to also add more points in case you notice)
First, one shoot of two 1:18 diecast models cars to help us in this comparison:


And here my points:


Let’s see:
(A) This piece looks smaller and not so curved than the Lola’s one.
(B) I can’t precisely if this part has the same format… I think so…
(C) As noticed above, this part is more prominent
(D) This piece is more curved than the Lola’s one but has almost the same size
(E) The windshield appears to be almost equal with Tamiya’s kit provides, once the Senna’s cars is not the same of the ’93 season’s car (as I noticed above)
(F) The rearview is totally different in terms of format and position
(G) In the Senna’s car this piece is higher than Lola’s car, and this entrance has also a different angle and format (in the die cast photos it is more ease noticed)
(H) This part of the front wing is basically the same shape but with more smooth curves
(I) Has a more curved silhouette than Lola’s nose
(J) Wings: the rear one has practically the same shape. There is a fin in the front wing that must be removed.

3) Engine: this is a medium problem… I’m not pretty sure yet because I can’t find some good references photos. As a matter of fact, I even know which Chevrolet´s engine was used: Chevy 265/B or Chevy 265/C. More problem: it is even more difficult to find out some good photos of 265/B than /C. Anyway, I guess two motors are quite the same… In this case, it is necessary to compare both blocks (Chevy 265 and Ford Cosworth XB) to check if it will be necessary make big modifications or just change the valve cover. Another issue is the gear box. I don’t know with is the same or at last very close, or in worst case, totally different…

4) Suspension and others minor differences: I’m pretty sure that these subjects are not a big deal for experts model builders. To change the front/rear wings; the wishbone’s thickness; cockpit pieces, etc etc etc will not be a big issue. Perhaps, the only problem it will find the Studio27 decal sheet available… (I already got mine rsrsrs).

That´s all folks!
I Hope we can discuss more about this project... I really want to build this model!

I know the topic and the tread is a bit older but maybe I'm lucky and someone of you can help me and saved it. I'm looking for the pictures from this post.



I have also dealt with the topic now and have already started a few things.



- front rims

- front wing (not 100% complete)

- front suspension









Sure, the body won't be easy (I think it's the hardest part) and so far I've avoided it ... I'll be making a few first templates shortly to make the construction easier.

Unfortunately there is little data on the outlines of the PC-21 (or I haven't found them yet), so I'll probably have to use my pictures and derive measurements.



If someone has new information, please let us know 

[indy]

The pictures are not organized well on Facebook but look up "john cummiskey racing" and look at their photos. It is restored but he is a former Penske mechanic.

Great work. Nice job on printing these parts, I always love your work!

Jordan

[steinietrabi]

WOW, this helps me so much
Thanks for the link - perfect!!!

[elsapito]

Thx for bringing this back to life.
Brave Thomas in attack mode!! GREAT! suspension upper wishbone has to have rear leg quite a bit more rearwards, so wider triangle... ;-)

[steinietrabi]

May 11, 2021 12:27:43 GMT -5 elsapito said:

Thx for bringing this back to life.
Brave Thomas in attack mode!! GREAT! suspension upper wishbone has to have rear leg quite a bit more rearwards, so wider triangle... ;-)

Sorry that I haven't got in touch until now..

Yes, it may or it is so that the rear beam of the upper suspension would have to move back a little. But also at the bottom would have to be extended backwards because they are at the same height.

But I was last busy with the Sidepods and died there, or rather, a Ferrari 158 and a Mercedes W12 got in tiny way. But it definitely continues here.

I also designed a set of decals, but not 100% finished because I want to have the model ready first to be able to test it.