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Post by INDY22IAM on Apr 24, 2014 6:49:11 GMT -5
One problem with the Andretti's is I think they were hard on the equipment. I think the best all time driver far as saving his equipment and letting the race come to him was Al Sr. I would say Rick Mears is a close and very close 2nd. Al it just seemed no matter what team he was on would do the best with what he had.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 10:14:41 GMT -5
One problem with the Andretti's is I think they were hard on the equipment. I think the best all time driver far as saving his equipment and letting the race come to him was Al Sr. I would say Rick Mears is a close and very close 2nd. Al it just seemed no matter what team he was on would do the best with what he had. I think the "hard on equipment" line on Mario is bunk. If you read about the 1987 race it was the engine folks who told Mario to slow down. As soon as he complied it broke. Al Unser was a fantastic driver in his own right but I also think he was one of the luckiest drivers in Indy history. That same race he was tapped by a spinning Garza on lap one! |
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Post by mrpeters on Jun 5, 2014 12:41:26 GMT -5
How was Michael "hard on" a water pump in 1992? He was cruising in that race. Hardly imagine he was going full out.
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Post by indycals on Jun 5, 2014 12:57:51 GMT -5
The only people hard on their equipment in 92 were the drivers who crashed on cold tires. Cars never got going fast enough, long enough to be hard on them.
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Post by Calvin on Jun 5, 2014 14:02:47 GMT -5
How was Michael "hard on" a water pump in 1992? He was cruising in that race. Hardly imagine he was going full out. Not running full out created harmonics.  |
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Post by indy on Jun 5, 2014 14:58:53 GMT -5
Mario's Chevy lasted the longest of all the ones in the 1987 500. So did Mario nurse his engine better or was it the best piece?
I think Michael could have slowed down his pace more in 1992 and kept the lead as he was setting a torrid pace. On the longer runs, only a few could stay on the lead lap. If he slowed down to maintain a lead gap of 5-10 seconds over 2nd could he have finished? [admin hat]I don't think anyone can answer that definitively. It can be fun to discuss, just be respectful of other's opinions as that is what this all is afterall - a discussion of opinions.[/admin hat]
Jordan
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Post by indy on Jun 5, 2014 15:01:04 GMT -5
Splitting this off from the build thread of Jose's excellent '87 Mario car.
Jordan
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Post by mjjracer on Jun 5, 2014 16:16:12 GMT -5
Marco is very easy on the equipment - because he's SLOW. :-)
Sorry, not really.
I think the Andretti's got a bad rap. Of course, I am a huge Mario fan. I would say racing luck more than anything. The Andretti's was/is bad, the Unsers and Foyt, good. I mean, come on, they both lucked into 2 of their 500 wins. Not saying they weren't great drivers, they were. But the greats also need some luck to become great. Somehow, Mario overcame that and became great anyway!
I know, total BS.
Or is it? Hmmm.... :-)
MJ
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Post by Calvin on Jun 5, 2014 16:35:41 GMT -5
Fans of the Andretti's say - No!
Non Andretti fans say - Yes!
Judge Calvin says - this thread needs a pole!
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Post by johnwebster on Jun 7, 2014 1:26:30 GMT -5
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Post by racerbrown on Jun 7, 2014 7:15:53 GMT -5
good answer john!!!
duane
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Post by clm1545 on Jun 7, 2014 7:47:34 GMT -5
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Post by Calvin on Jun 7, 2014 10:22:12 GMT -5
It should be Danica....just for our friend Russ.  (I'm in huge trouble today!) |
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Post by alterrenner on Jun 7, 2014 19:37:31 GMT -5
The crew gives the best car they can to the driver, and they expect the driver to be hard on the car. Even Johnnie Parsons was as hard on his 1950 car as he could be, knowing a cracked cylinder head wouldn't go 500 miles. Worked out for him. I think a more accurate question would be "do the Andrettis pace thier equipment beyond the circuit?"
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Post by harveythedog2 on Jun 16, 2014 10:23:31 GMT -5
"I was driven by the desire to win at all costs. But I didn’t want to know what the costs were.” From ANDRETTI, by Mario Andretti
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Post by indy on Jul 9, 2014 10:32:15 GMT -5
Was reading an except from the book Beast about the 1994 Mercedes 500I that won Indy. I have been waiting for some feedback from the guys here that bought it first. The reviews on Amazon have been so positive (a few 4 stars, most all 5 stars, no 1-3 star ratings) that I am thinking about just going ahead and getting it. Anyway, in the preview, there was an interesting short description of Mario's 1987 engine failure which is especially relevant due to the 500I and Mario's Chevy being Ilmor engines. The book attributed Mario's 1987 engine failure to running the engine too slow Jordan |
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Post by harveythedog2 on Jul 9, 2014 11:38:03 GMT -5
I had read elsewhere that had Andretti gone up one gear, everything would have been fine. 1987 was my first Indy 500 and I was devestated. Had Mario won, it would have went down as one of the most dominating 500's but also one of boredom for many.
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sam198
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Post by sam198 on Jul 9, 2014 12:58:12 GMT -5
I don't think that Mario was any harder on equipment than most others (not everyone is Al Unser). Race car reliability then vs. now is not a fair comparison, plus he drove for Lotus for several years. The issue I've always had with Mario (aside from nothing ever being his fault) is the whoa is me attitude. I remember watching an interview with him about his 1978 World Championship season and he was complaining about not being able to enjoy winning the title because of Ronnie Peterson's crash and he just came off as tactless and whiny.
Scott
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Post by indy on Jul 9, 2014 13:06:56 GMT -5
I had read elsewhere that had Andretti gone up one gear, everything would have been fine. Sounds like any other gear would have worked. He was just at the wrong combination of gear and boost to keep the revs in a range where it would blow that thing up. Some days you just don't get the breaks. Never was much of a Mario fan but his career and accomplishments are certainly awe inspiring and admirable. Happened to go to the Houston Car Show back in 2002 on the night he was there. He was a Chevron spokesman then (after they bought Texaco) and he was very nice signing stuff for the long line of fans - I was happy to get one of his handouts signed. The Gran Turismo videos they did with him this winter were cool. Jordan |
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Post by harveythedog2 on Jul 9, 2014 13:21:48 GMT -5
Whoa! I have seen and read many accounts about Mario and never once have I seen him tactless and whiney about Ronnie Peterson's death. Everything I have seen or read was pure remorse. Yes, he said that he could not enjoy his Championship because of Ronnie's death but Ronnie was one of his closest friends. Who would?
"Ronnie's teammate Mario Andretti commented, "It was so unfair to have a tragedy connected with probably what should have been the happiest day of my career" before adding he knew Ronnie would be happy for him."
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Post by indycals on Jul 9, 2014 13:48:09 GMT -5
Whoa! I have seen and read many accounts about Mario and never once have I seen him tactless and whiney about Ronnie Peterson's death. Everything I have seen or read was pure remorse. Yes, he said that he could not enjoy his Championship because of Ronnie's death but Ronnie was one of his closest friends. Who would? Exactly Imaging working your entire life to achieve a single goal and the day you finally realize that goal it is at the expense of the death of a close friend. (And a senseless one at that as there is no way Ronnie should have died from the injuries he had). |
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Post by Calvin on Jul 9, 2014 14:02:00 GMT -5
The book attributed Mario's 1987 engine failure to running the engine too slowHey! I knew it!  Not running full out created harmonics. |
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sam198
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Post by sam198 on Jul 9, 2014 14:26:26 GMT -5
I'm perfectly willing to concede that I may have misinterpreted the interview and I know there was genuine affection between Mario and Ronnie. That said, Mario whined most of his career and never once made a mistake (according to him). I realize this doesn't put him in exclusive company, but take a little bit of blame every now and then. Like Ken Schrader said "it was half your fault, because you knew they were crazy before you went out there". I started watching racing when Mario was on the downhill slide of his career, I don't much like Foyt for many of the same reasons (not the least of which is hanging on too long).
But I will say, I cannot deny the man had one of the greatest careers anyone ever had. He did things that will never be matched, but in reading interviews, it always seems like he focuses more on things like a 2nd Indy win or not winning the WC in 1977 as much as the truly remarkable things he did do.
Scott
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Post by mjjracer on Jul 9, 2014 14:41:36 GMT -5
I'm perfectly willing to concede that I may have misinterpreted the interview and I know there was genuine affection between Mario and Ronnie. That said, Mario whined most of his career and never once made a mistake (according to him). I realize this doesn't put him in exclusive company, but take a little bit of blame every now and then. Like Ken Schrader said "it was half your fault, because you knew they were crazy before you went out there". I started watching racing when Mario was on the downhill slide of his career, I don't much like Foyt for many of the same reasons (not the least of which is hanging on too long). But I will say, I cannot deny the man had one of the greatest careers anyone ever had. He did things that will never be matched, but in reading interviews, it always seems like he focuses more on things like a 2nd Indy win or not winning the WC in 1977 as much as the truly remarkable things he did do. Scott I think when someone is as successful as a Foyt or Andretti they have to be highly driven individuals. And being driven means you are never happy or satisfied with what you accomplish and HATE losing so much it sticks with you and maybe you focus too much on the bad. Humility is not a trait often shown by driven champions. It's nice when it happens (Dan Gurney, Dario Franchitti) but I don't expect it. MJ |
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Post by mjjracer on Jul 9, 2014 14:46:29 GMT -5
Whoa! I have seen and read many accounts about Mario and never once have I seen him tactless and whiney about Ronnie Peterson's death. Everything I have seen or read was pure remorse. Yes, he said that he could not enjoy his Championship because of Ronnie's death but Ronnie was one of his closest friends. Who would? Exactly Imaging working your entire life to achieve a single goal and the day you finally realize that goal it is at the expense of the death of a close friend. (And a senseless one at that as there is no way Ronnie should have died from the injuries he had). The tragic situations surrounding both U.S. world champions are just stunningly similar. Both Hill and Andretti should have been carried around Monza on the shoulders of the fans and instead they are left to grieve for their teammate. MJ |
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Post by billgtp on Jul 9, 2014 22:40:16 GMT -5
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Post by harveythedog2 on Jul 10, 2014 6:57:53 GMT -5
Okay - Before this gets out of hand and changes topics from "Hard on equipment" to "Mario was a whiner" let me just say - Discussion topics like this are never a good thing.
You will always have fans that liked Mario defend him and you will always have fans that didn't bash him. I actually cringed when this topic was posted. Not because "I am a Mario Fan" but rather because I knew a topic like this can never end well. If I said Al Unser "was not" a good race car driver because all ever did was cruise around waiting for everyone else to break, most people would go nuts! Please - This is just an example and not necessarily my true feelings.
Opinions are just that so please lets keep it civil.
Stu
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sam198
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Post by sam198 on Jul 10, 2014 9:31:03 GMT -5
Stu,
I apologize if I came of as not civil and for taking us in this direction. We all have our favorite drivers and our not so favorites, nobody has the same set and nobody is wrong. Again, I will reiterate that I don't see any evidence that Mario was particularly hard on equipment, 1987 was just really bad luck and that seems to be the only instance people point to for that. I think part of what cut down on his results in Indycars, more than anything, was the several years he spent focusing on F1. I'm not dogging him for doing it, but it had to have been tough to do both (and today it would be impossible).
Scott
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Post by harveythedog2 on Jul 10, 2014 10:32:40 GMT -5
No worries Scott. I just didn't want the thread to expand into a back and forth arguement.
My opinion on the topic is this: When Mario raced for Penske the joke in the Paddock was that "Mario could break an anvil with a rubber mallot." basically saying that "he was" tough on equipment.
To me it's all a matter of when. Did you break your car at the start? Break it trying to chase someone down? Or break it when you were two laps in the lead? It's silly really because no racer wants to break his car.
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Post by Calvin on Jul 10, 2014 11:37:49 GMT -5
These Mario Andretti threads always get touchy...it never fails. I always wondered what a Kevin Cogan thread would be like? I actually feel sorry for him more and more....espeically when Mario calls you a little kid and Foyt calls you "Coogan" which kinda ruined his career. Nevermind I'm going OT. |
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(I'm in huge trouble today!)
