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Post by pje on Aug 25, 2015 0:44:22 GMT -5
A number of you know that I’m an old fart (67) and been a fan of open wheel-open cockpit racing since the ‘60’s. I remember the silly roll bar on the Ferrari 156 and wondering how that would ever save Phil Hill or another Ferrari driver if that car ever got upside down. A lot of roll bars just seemed to be there because some rule stated that a car had to carry it. Looking at Dan Gurney’s early rides in F1 and at Indy I really worried about how far elevated his head was in relationship to the roll bar. It wasn’t until 1966 that I ever saw him look properly enclosed in a race car, and that was because he finally had a car designed for him personally. Even this season, I remember having thoughts about how high Graham Rahal sits in his car. With the tragic death of Justin Wilson, I hope that open wheel cars are truly brought into the 21st century with cockpit canopies.
I think that the idea of enclosing the cockpit of an open wheel race car needs to be addressed now, is because about the design of the cars themselves. In using the latest in composite materials to make the cars safer for the driver in the event of a crash, we have made it less safe for the rest of the field in one major area and that of course is flying debris. We all know about how when a modern race car hits the wall, or another car, the energy of the impact immediately begins to dissipate as the car first crushes and then parts start flying off the car, minus the safety cell of the main part of the chassis of course. I’ve lost count as to how many close calls we have seen in the last few years from in car cameras showing flying parts or accidents where one car flies over the cockpit of another car.
We’re all familiar with the Red Bull F1 concept car and I for one think it’s a good place for both Indy Car and F1 to start. (In fact as I write this I remember a concept model of an enclosed Indy Car in an early 1960’s Rod and Custom magazine.) I know that there are many worries about this concept of a canopy (fire, driver extraction, etc.), but we have that same challenge in other forms of motorsport with roofs and so I personally don’t think that those negatives out weight the benefits of a completely enclosed cockpit.
I believe that Indycar has been looking at a completely new car for the 2018-2020 timeframe and I hope that we see a completely enclosed cockpit by then if not even 2017. F1 is always looking for some new technology to highlight their series. Indycar is struggling with a lot of aspects of the sport. But I hope that both my favorite forms of racing implement this sort of driver protection before we have this happen again. In 2009 Felipe Massa was hit in the head by a flying spring. We don’t need to wait another 6 years for canopies.
Thanks for letting me vent. I certainly am interested in hearing how the rest of you feel about this subject. I know that racing can never be 100% safe and I don’t think that anyone wants that, but personally I think that this is an ideal whose time has come.
Paul Erlendson
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Post by Calvin on Aug 25, 2015 1:33:07 GMT -5
Its time.....after the accident I knew this topic was going to come up.
If it's not debris its going to be the catch fence that someone is going to get their head into again.
There has been major safety improvements in the history of IndyCar racing
Helmets - Seatbelts - firesuits - roll bar - next needs to be a Canopy.
It can be a state of the art, slick looking canopy, it would give the cars more of a fighter jet look.
Canopies are nothing new to other forms of racing. If you think about, you can barely see the drivers already.
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Post by ttocs78z28 on Aug 25, 2015 6:35:47 GMT -5
I’m all for safety, don’t get me wrong. But before jumping into enclosed cockpits I hope other factors get looked at. What causes some of these wrecks? The cars this season have seemed a bit unstable at times (Indy practice). The formula is also purposely setup for close racing…………to be more exciting for the fans. Historically, there were always cars losing control and hitting walls. It’s just now they race packed together so tight that one mistake causes tragedy. I feel that’s partly the cause for the last two Indycar fatalities. I never felt racing was necessarily less exciting when the field was spread out and the winner was a lap ahead.
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Post by harveythedog2 on Aug 25, 2015 8:04:30 GMT -5
I disagree that the cockpits should be closed. This is Open Wheel/Open Cockpit racing and why I love it. What happened to Justin (RIP) was a fluke. All the stars had to align for that nose cone to hit the wall, bounce off this, bounce off that and then come into the path of his car at the right height and angle.
If anything, we can already blame safety for the accident. The cars are made to blow apart in order to disapate the energy. The car did what it was designed to do. Blow apart. It is a risk and guys that drive over 200mph take risks.
I am all for safety and I don't enjoy people getting killed but if we close the cockpits what's next? Someone drives over a front wheel, crashes and dies so we box them in also? Why don't we just have the Le Mans cars race at Indy? If that is where we are headed, I say no thanks.
Why do we do this? Because we love it, don't want to be anywhere else but a race car. We will keep your legacy my friend. Racers race.
— Tony Kanaan (@tonykanaan) August 25, 2015
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Post by gwstexas on Aug 25, 2015 8:35:52 GMT -5
I'm not sure where I stand on the open cockpit/canopy issue. Right now, I tend to agree with Stu, but I need to give it a lot more thought. Meanwhile, how about tethering the nose piece? Surely there is a way to do that and still allow the ability to change the nose quickly.Just a thought, but it would seem to make sense.
Gary
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 9:47:55 GMT -5
I disagree as well. This car is a total POS. The center of pressure is extremely sensitive. They have added and added aero do dads as they have no front grip what so ever. It's a bad car, which keeps being made worse with "aerokits"
Not to mention the nose cone is not secured in shear, which is totally rehensible (sp)
it's all I'm going to say. I have been anti car the entire time (1997) Every one of these cars does a wheel stand when it hits something. Now they throw parts like a waterballoon exploding. Big parts.
Massa was a fluke, Wilson was bound to happen. Just ask the lady at Saint Pete who got hit with a rear bumper thingy getting a coke BEHIND THE GRANDSTAND.
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Post by 1961redlegs on Aug 25, 2015 19:31:43 GMT -5
I agree with Gary, for now let's tether the nosepiece as a start. There's been a few instances where those have broken off this year and if we can keep more parts that break off the car tied to it the less apt this is to happen again.
I am not a big fan of canopies but at the same time I'm not taking the risk behind the wheel. I need to ponder this issue some more.
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Post by INDY22IAM on Aug 25, 2015 20:26:31 GMT -5
I hate to say this but lets not discuss about this right now. Lets pray for those who have racing still to go and those that have gone before us in the past. God speed Justin and my your family, friends and fans be consoled. Say a prayer for all those in racing and continue this after the season is over. Racing is a dangerous sport but also is riding your bike down a sidewalk. Accidents and tragedies will always happen. We just need to learn from them and make things safer and I fell Indy Car is one of the leaders in doing so.
Again prayers go out to the racing community, R.I.P.
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Post by mjjracer on Aug 28, 2015 15:03:50 GMT -5
And now, of course, comes the call to shut down Indycar:
LINK DELETED
Indycar should be shut down, yet things like MMA, where the purpose is to cause enough brain damage in your opponent that he/she passes out, continue on unabated.
MJ
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Post by indycals on Aug 28, 2015 15:12:10 GMT -5
IMO the worst thing to do is to give an article like that more clicks. |
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Post by mjjracer on Aug 28, 2015 17:22:02 GMT -5
Good point Michael.
MJ
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Post by Patrick on Aug 28, 2015 19:48:41 GMT -5
I'm an old wind passer, too! I'm very much a traditionalist and abhor the thought of closed canopies in F1 or Indy. Open cockpits have been in our open wheeled sport since the beginning. True, that's no reason not to change, but racing in inherently dangerous and can cause great harm to the driver or spectator. That's the way it is. I remember that on the back of my Indycar ticket it states I "assume all risk..." as does every driver that steps into a racecar. Let's see what the drivers have to say about this proposal.
Patrick
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Post by IndyCarModels on Aug 28, 2015 22:13:40 GMT -5
This is coming from another old fart and I remember when we lost 5-6 drivers a year. Since my beginnings I have seen the addition of seat belts, roll bars, flame resistant firesuits, fuel bladders, and finally soft walls. Indy racing is dangerous and every death is a loss but in my 50 years of watching it is easier to take when we only lose a driver every 4-5 years. I don't know about canopies but the sport continues to become safer as it should and if this is a direction, we need to go, then so be it.
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Post by Calvin on Aug 28, 2015 22:31:51 GMT -5
The one thing I don't want to see go away is Oval racing....it's getting to the point were the only oval race will be Indy.
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jwrass
Rookie
Mechcanical Engineer. 45 yr's Custom Painter- Pinstriping, Lettering, Airbrush, Exotic Finishes,
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Post by jwrass on Aug 29, 2015 2:15:23 GMT -5
The Paul Newberry article was ignorance at it's finest! The INDY CARS will be replaced by NASCAR what planet does this guy live on!
I have been going to the 500 on and off (mostly on) since 1971, our family has had tickets since 1955, from where I sit I have seen the attendance increase in the last four years, I don't have attendance figures but I can't go pee without a thousand(well not that many)excuse me's. The racing has been non stop from start to finish with record lead changes. From my sofa it appeared to me that their were many a empty seat for the Brickyard.
NASCAR replacing Indy Cars!!! Not in my lifetime!
Jimmy "RASS"
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russd
Race Winner
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Post by russd on Aug 29, 2015 3:14:56 GMT -5
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Post by Chris on Aug 30, 2015 13:41:01 GMT -5
A simple raised/required windscreen of a proper material would alleviate most dangerous situations. When did the designers/FIA do away with them ?? I dare to say the FIA could even set forth a set of required specifications..
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Post by chromehorn08 on Sept 1, 2015 7:03:21 GMT -5
Found this on the interweb last night. It doesn't have any driver protection but it still looks cool!   |
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Post by pje on Oct 29, 2015 11:48:35 GMT -5
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Post by racerbrown on Oct 29, 2015 12:57:15 GMT -5
of course rick makes all the sense in the world which is why indy car's head honchos won't understand…
duane
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Post by indy on Oct 29, 2015 13:49:29 GMT -5
Great read. Thanks for the link, Paul!
Jordan
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Post by clm1545 on Oct 29, 2015 19:27:52 GMT -5
I could not agree with Rick more. Let's make oval track racing more about skill, and less about brave. Speeds don't need to increase every year.
Seems, to me, that as we make cars, and tracks safer, we make drivers more dangerous.
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Post by INDY22IAM on Oct 29, 2015 21:10:29 GMT -5
Totally agree with Rick on that. Good point also on the speed increases. I would rather see great racing who cares if it is at 230 or 220 mph if it is great racing it won't matter. I think this year hopefully will be better and safer with the teams knowing what to expect and have a better handle on the aerodynamic packages. I wonder if Rick has ever thought about being on the Indy Car board.
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Post by joe on Oct 30, 2015 4:29:58 GMT -5
Great article makes a lot of sense. Only one thing to say though ground effects were not banned in 83. The cars had wings and ground effects tunnels on the bottom no skirts though. Penske ran March's at Indy and had his own wind tunnel goodies on them. Was associated with Forsythe racing at the time we did not have the same parts as them boys in qualifying.
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Post by 2lapsdown on Oct 30, 2015 5:08:25 GMT -5
Rick is way to smart to serve on the Indy Car board. He's seen where that can lead. While his knowledge and passion would be a welcome addition to the board, I think he's right where he wants to be at Penske.
John
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Post by mjjracer on Oct 30, 2015 12:23:12 GMT -5
I saw that article as well. IMO Rick was the best ever at Indy, and no one knows better than he what direction Indycar should be going. Miles would be wise to kick out the suits from Boston and make Rick the official Indycar Guru. Rick is way to smart to join the board or, heaven forbid, become the Director of Competition.
But, as Yoda would say "To him they should be listening."
MJ
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