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Post by Calvin on Jan 22, 2015 19:38:30 GMT -5
I just got this today from our friend Frank K. as gift! Which was very nice of him! So I'm going to make sure I do a good WIP on this kit! Bill J. made this kit back in the day....as far as I know very few are out there? I'm already looking for parts for it and I'm going to do some scratch building as well.....this is going to be a very long detailed WIP. I just ordered some resin Offy's from Indycals and I'll have to figure out how the plumbing goes on this car as its very different! As far as I can see the turbo is in the back behind the rear wing strut! So if you have any detailed shots of this car then we would be very thrilled to see them! I'm not too sure which race I'm going to depict of this car....I might do Unser's Texas World winning car?      As this thread goes on I'll be posting facts and history about this car as I learn about it...... To be honest, I really don't know very much about it. But that's the fun of doing WIP's as we learn all about these interesting cars. |
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Post by clm1545 on Jan 22, 2015 22:05:22 GMT -5
Good score, Calvin. Frank sounds like a good guy, is he one of us? Looks like that one will keep you off the streets, and out of the bars for quite a while.
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Post by racerbrown on Jan 22, 2015 23:13:35 GMT -5
this should be fun to watch  the problem is now i have this craving for a smoke.  duane |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 23:31:56 GMT -5
Who is "We"?
There are plenty of in depth photo journals of these cars. I cut them out of Motor Magazine when they were new. I have them but no scanner. They have a fabricated boom that is quite odd which acts as the rear wing pylon. The turbo mounted in this arrangement. I saw these cars run. I must say I liked them without the engine cover on them, but they did run at Indy with the full length cover. Opperman's car in '74 was sans the full cover however.
From the other thread, never in all my time and the guys I know (and one guy I know has a '72 car) I have never heard them refered to as a "cigarette box." Parnelli may have refered it as "the boxy one" but for the most part they are known as '73 Parnelli's or VPJ's.
These cars utilized torsionbar suspension IIRC. Andretti used to adjust his car himself out on pit lane during practice. Used scales and everything. I always thought that was cool as you never saw any of the top flight drives wrenching their own cars. Andretti did, as I don't think these handled all that well and running up against the new Eagle design was a tall order.
I have three of these kits. Two are built. I must say that the upper body work is off a bit when you compare it to a side on shot. The area incorporating the headrest and rollhoop appear longer on the 1 to 1 car than the 1:25 car. This could be a function of scale. I am glad I have them as they are very nice looking cars IMO. Maurice Phillipe penned some really nice cars. Of course Bill whittled them out of putty and passion. It is a good kit IMO, because even I could build one!
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Post by Calvin on Jan 22, 2015 23:51:48 GMT -5
Anyone that has an interest in this car and build/model. As a forum.... we build together. we research together. we care about each others projects. |
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Post by lance on Jan 23, 2015 0:48:08 GMT -5
I have a scaled side drawing of this car but conflicting numbers on the wheelbase, Plan to measure the car and nail it down for a set of drawings in the near future.
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Post by Patrick on Jan 23, 2015 2:37:54 GMT -5
This is why Calvin is a gem of this group! Play magic fingers!
Patrick
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Post by Calvin on Jan 23, 2015 3:15:47 GMT -5
Here is some interesting pictures.  Skirts? That front lip actually goes all the way under the center sides of the tub! Could this be the first use of skirts on an Indycar? Just some detail shots      here is a shot of that rear wing strut! Look at where the turbo inlet is at! I'm also puzzled but the bare aluminum rear wing (maybe just simply not painted) But mostly puzzled by how the main part of rear wing strut is not touching to the top surface of the rear wing....its almost like its hanging by some brackets?  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2015 6:28:34 GMT -5
It's a boom. They messed around with this as well. The wing is still attached brom the bottom. Those arms you see go from under the wing, around the front and attach to the "boom" As far as unfinished wing, it was probably something they were trying out (a new one, different from the six or so others back in the garage)
Guys in fab shops were cranking them out making big money.
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Post by racerbrown on Jan 23, 2015 7:09:44 GMT -5
Anyone that has an interest in this car and build/model. As a forum.... we build together. we research together. we care about each others projects. touche' calvin! a heck of a group we have here. duane |
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Post by jamesharvey on Jan 23, 2015 8:04:00 GMT -5
This is a terrific thread! I am so ignorant that I did not know the Bill J ever made a kit of this. I am so glad that Calvin has one and we get to watch. I just finished Joe Leonard's '72 so this will be fun.
Jim
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Post by raceparke on Jan 23, 2015 9:06:06 GMT -5
This will be fun!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2015 10:48:05 GMT -5
Anyone that has an interest in this car and build/model. As a forum.... we build together. we research together. we care about each others projects. touche' calvin! a heck of a group we have here. duane But he feels like a penny wait for change......... Russ |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2015 11:02:42 GMT -5
It's a boom. They messed around with this as well. The wing is still attached brom the bottom. Those arms you see go from under the wing, around the front and attach to the "boom" As far as unfinished wing, it was probably something they were trying out (a new one, different from the six or so others back in the garage) Guys in fab shops were cranking them out making big money. |
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Post by indy on Jan 23, 2015 11:31:28 GMT -5
What's the issue here? C'mon guys we can discuss cars without any hurt feelings, right?
Jordan
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Post by Calvin on Jan 23, 2015 12:20:16 GMT -5
As far as I can tell the Undertray skirts layout like this?  Skirts? That front lip actually goes all the way under the center sides of the tub! Could this be the first use of skirts on an Indycar? |
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Post by lance on Jan 23, 2015 13:22:04 GMT -5
Wow, Someone in the know supplies technical answers to questions and all some guys want to do is keep score on personal digs, this is pretty sad!
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Post by illeagle10 on Jan 23, 2015 14:07:32 GMT -5
Wow, Someone in the know supplies technical answers to questions and all some guys want to do is keep score on personal digs, this is pretty sad! Ditto! Yeah! What happened to "we!" Jim |
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Post by Calvin on Jan 23, 2015 15:14:53 GMT -5
OK......no more! My dream thread on one of the superteam cars is going to turn into a super-daycare before long.
There is no score keeping in Model building......none....so that's why its going to stop now.
From now on we are talking about this interesting car and not silly personal stuff!
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Post by IndyCarModels on Jan 23, 2015 15:45:12 GMT -5
OK......no more! My dream thread on one of the superteam cars is going to turn into a super-daycare before long. There is no score keeping in Model building......none....so that's why its going to stop now. From now on we are talking about this interesting car and not silly personal stuff! I have a personal question for you? Just joking. I will enjoy this build. |
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Post by illeagle10 on Jan 23, 2015 15:56:45 GMT -5
OK......no more! My dream thread on one of the superteam cars is going to turn into a super-daycare before long. There is no score keeping in Model building......none....so that's why its going to stop now. From now on we are talking about this interesting car and not silly personal stuff! You're exactly right Calvin! I want to see how you go about doing this neat car. I certainly want to be able to learn something from you and from any other guys that have information that I can learn from and not be made fun of as if we're in some high school class! I remember seeing these cars up at Pocono in 1973. Now, I don't know if they had an official nickname, but my dad use to call them shoe boxes with wings! Here is a couple of pics I took back then,I was about 15 or 16 years old at the time and wish I would've known the value of taking more detailed pictures!     Enjoy, Jim |
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Post by indycals on Jan 23, 2015 16:00:30 GMT -5
It's hard to believe the 72 and 73 Parnelli's were designed by the same person. Just looking at them it looks like the 72 was designed for maximum efficiency and the 73 was designed for minimum efficiency  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2015 16:11:35 GMT -5
To Calvin, Jordon, Lance, Michael, Jim.....Everyone I may ofended.....S0 SORRY
Now.......hack to the build
Russ
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Post by Calvin on Jan 23, 2015 16:17:04 GMT -5
OK......no more! My dream thread on one of the superteam cars is going to turn into a super-daycare before long. There is no score keeping in Model building......none....so that's why its going to stop now. From now on we are talking about this interesting car and not silly personal stuff! I have a personal question for you? Just joking. I will enjoy this build. Well you're an exception  |
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Post by Calvin on Jan 23, 2015 16:21:34 GMT -5
Here is a couple of pics I took back then,I was about 15 or 16 years old at the time and wish I would've known the value of taking more detailed pictures! Thank you for the pics! I like your pics....I dont know how many 15 year olds back then would be taking pictures of race cars? I think you did good. They are NOT blurry...maybe a little overexposed (which can easily be fixed) IMO every picture can be useful. |
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Post by harveythedog2 on Jan 23, 2015 16:26:34 GMT -5
Great photos Jim. I think we all wish we would have done some things different when we were that age. Wish I still had my G.I. Joe with the Kung Fu Grip! I am just glad you still have these photos at all!
As most of you know, I am a VPJ freak. Mostly 1972 but I dig the 73 also. Great stuff.
Stu
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Post by illeagle10 on Jan 23, 2015 16:28:59 GMT -5
It's hard to believe the 72 and 73 Parnelli's were designed by the same person. Just looking at them it looks like the 72 was designed for maximum efficiency and the 73 was designed for minimum efficiency I always wondered about that myself Michael. The 72 car didn't seem to be that bad of a car, so you would think there would be a progression of development, like the Eagle and McLaren and then to come up with a completely different car the following year. Then switching to Eagles in 74 for Indy races and then coming out with a completely different car in 75. Maybe someone can shed some light on that? Jim |
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Post by illeagle10 on Jan 23, 2015 16:42:21 GMT -5
Here is a couple of pics I took back then,I was about 15 or 16 years old at the time and wish I would've known the value of taking more detailed pictures! Thank you for the pics! I like your pics....I dont know how many 15 year olds back then would be taking pictures of race cars? I think you did good. They are NOT blurry...maybe a little overexposed (which can easily be fixed) IMO every picture can be useful. I should have said a 15 year old with my uncle's borrowed 35mm camera. I always like the color contrast of the Colt VJP cars between the Johnny Lightning and Samsonite. Then when they got the Viceroy sponsorship I was a little disappointed. Now looking back over the years, I like that color contrast too! Al Sr. is my all time Indy driver. I should've been a hometown fan and routed for Mario. He was my number two guy and Joe Leonard number three.....that's right the super team! Wooo! Hooo! LOL! Jim |
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Post by raceparke on Jan 23, 2015 17:38:01 GMT -5
I think you may be on to something with that skirt idea. After all, Jim Hall did something with skirts 4 years earlier.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2015 17:55:37 GMT -5
Neither car was rigid enough. They would not hold a set up over a fuel load. There was a huge rivalry between AAR and VPJ at the time. They even went so far as to spy on each other during tire tests. Vel and Parnelli finally relented and purchased Eagles from AAR.
To which all of the employee's of AAR took great delight!
Best to You!
Hubie
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