My conversion

[Deleted]

Hey everyone, new 'rookie' here.  I think of myself as that guy who ran two Indy Lights races and thinks he's ready for the 500!  I've been lurking for a while and must say, I love what I've seen here!  I'm loving the skill displayed.  Recently, I bought a donor and now had a question about where to go next.  I've been searching for some answers thru threads, and it has helped.  Is it important to strip the car down to bare metal?  I'm assuming that if I start painting now, it'll leave some residual behind.

Here it is so far, stripping down the logos:

[mrpeters]

doing great so far! If you managed to get the car apart without breaking the front suspension you're doing way better than I did on my first go at a DW12 conversion!

I would highly recommend removing all of the plastic pieces (there are many ways of doing this, such as cutting them with an knife, pushing them "through" with a blunt object, etc.) and then stopping by your local auto parts store and getting a can of Kleen Strip aircraft remover (I like the aerosol cans) and letting that sit on the metal pieces for about 30 minutes. Scrub with a softer wire brush, or even a toothbrush can work. Once you're down to bare metal, I reccomend a soak in some dish soap and water overnight, or even run it through the dishwasher on the highest setting (mine is a "Sani-Wash") with a steam dry. This has given me the best results in making sure all of that paint stripper residue is GONE before applying any paint. If any remnants are left lurking in crevices on the model you'll end up very frustrated when you go to apply primer/paint.

After that, spray all of the metal with some Rustoleum Self Etching Primer to start. It has an acid in the mix that helps the primer "bite" into the model. I've tried lots of other primers but after I was told by folks here to try self etching primer, I never looked back.

For the plastic parts (the underwing, for example) I like to soak mine in Simple Green degreaser (you can buy a gallon for like $8 at any hardware store and usually even Walmart). Fully submerge the parts in Simple Green and let them sit for several days. Every day or so, use your brush or fingernail to scrape at the (in this case) blue finish. You'll see it start to wear away down to a raw black plastic. Another option, if you can find it, is Testors ELO (Easy Lift Off) in a tan aluminum can. It can be hard to find, and a small bottle runs me about $11. It will work MUCH faster than the Simple Green, however, if you want quick results.

For priming the plastic parts (headrest would be another to consider, along with the rear bumper), I like to stick to Tamyia White or Grey primer (Hobby Lobby, Hobbytown USA, etc. all carry this). Keep in mind...the underwing is part plastic and part diecast. When you lift the tub off, you'll see 1 small screw on each side of the underwing (top side) that holds the metal portion in place. Take those out, and strip along with your other metal parts.

Last, but not least, DO NOT try removing the mirrors before using some kind of paint stripper. Every time I have tried to shortcut it I've left myself with broken mirrors (the little tab breaks so easily) and I've learned my lesson. They will almost fall right out after a nice bath in the aircraft remover loosens the glue and/or paint holding them in place.

Congrats on your first attempt and it looks like you are off to an excellent start! Any hints on what this will become or are we left in suspense?

[Calvin]

Welcome! You'll get a lot of help from our fine group of professional Die Cast builders.

[senn65]

Ok if you're just going to do this one car then discontinue reading, if this will be a hobby then invest in a few tools. Disassembly on any die cast can be disheartening especially these but with a couple tools can be rewarding. BUY A DREMEL, either battery or electric & some carbide bits. All the plastic parts are either "welded" to melt them over or "punched" in place with a machine where the metal is mushroomed to hold it in place. After removing the wheels the suspension pieces are "welded". Look the car over & you can see which pieces need ground off with your Dremel then can be removed. The lower wishbones are all one piece. The body cannot be separated until you "unweld" this part also "unweld" the push rods (the other ends go under the shock cover we'll get to that later). After the rear suspension/transmission are removed then the cockpit can be separated from the side pods. This will leave the underwing & lower wishbones together. I take a flat screwdriver & jam it under the wishbones front & rear with a twist & the wishbones will pop right off. This keeps you from masking it off when to paint portions of the underwing. Now turn over the car & you'll see 3 screws, 2 in front & 1 in back, remove these & the cockpit will separate from the side pods. Now you'll see 2 plastic exhaust pipes, grind off the "punched" metal holding them in place being careful NOT to harm the plastic but some can't be helped now remove those & the 2 plastic radiator pieces that will pull right out. Now with your Dremel grind off the "welds" from the seat & remove it. The grind off the "welds" (3)from the plastic head surround & remove it. Now you'll see the plastic fuel buckeye, the instrument panel which are "metal punched" in place. With your Dremel & a small bit grind off the mushroomed top of the metal trying NOT to grind away the plastic, it can be done if you're careful now remove these. There are 3 plastic antennas, by now you have probably broken off the one on the nose just handling the car I know b/c I have done it a few times. These are "welded" & get stuck in their holes when the heat was applied at the factory, they are very hard to remove, I have good success with my tiny punches which are nothing more than a set of those tiny screw drivers that I use for puches, they work GREAT. You can buy a set of these at any flea market or hardware store. After all this you can remove the paint. There is a plastic piece inside the airbox. I remove the airbox (optional) so I can remove this piece of plastic & throw it as far as I can & pay no attention to where it lands. I do not re install it. I also remove the camera b/c some are painted a different color that the body. It makes painting 100 times easier but this is optional. I don't mean to discourage you or be the only way to do things with all this posting, but if you follow this you will not be. There will be other tips from other guys here so they may have better ideas. If you have any questions just ask. Oh I forgot about the shock cover. It is glued in place with 3 little tabs, I take a screw driver & pry front & back on both sides a little at a time so as not to break off the tabs, now you can remove the push rods with your fingers, they will probably fall out on their own.

[Deleted]

Jul 25, 2014 22:46:27 GMT -5 mrpeters said:

Last, but not least, DO NOT try removing the mirrors before using some kind of paint stripper. Every time I have tried to shortcut it I've left myself with broken mirrors (the little tab breaks so easily) and I've learned my lesson. They will almost fall right out after a nice bath in the aircraft remover loosens the glue and/or paint holding them in place.

Congrats on your first attempt and it looks like you are off to an excellent start! Any hints on what this will become or are we left in suspense?

I was wondering how you get those off.  I've been trying like hell with a small flat head screw driver trying to chip away at the glue under the tub.

As far as what I'll be attempting, I haven't decided.  Looking at a simple one-color car, or perhaps trying a Penske DW12 with M@r1b0r0.

[Deleted]

Jul 25, 2014 21:06:11 GMT -5 @indy500fan said:

Hey everyone, new 'rookie' here.  I think of myself as that guy who ran two Indy Lights races and thinks he's ready for the 500!  I've been lurking for a while and must say, I love what I've seen here!  I'm loving the skill displayed.  Recently, I bought a donor and now had a question about where to go next.  I've been searching for some answers thru threads, and it has helped.  Is it important to strip the car down to bare metal?  I'm assuming that if I start painting now, it'll leave some residual behind.

Here it is so far, stripping down the logos:

Question: is it really necessary to take these down to bare metal. Why not just a light sand, prime and paint.
Especially for us guys not selling but keeping for ourself?

[IndyCarModels]

I have done it both ways and I prefer to take them to  the  bare medal. A lot better finish product.

[mrpeters]

Jul 26, 2014 11:41:13 GMT -5 @lloydracing said:

Jul 25, 2014 21:06:11 GMT -5 @indy500fan said:

Hey everyone, new 'rookie' here.  I think of myself as that guy who ran two Indy Lights races and thinks he's ready for the 500!  I've been lurking for a while and must say, I love what I've seen here!  I'm loving the skill displayed.  Recently, I bought a donor and now had a question about where to go next.  I've been searching for some answers thru threads, and it has helped.  Is it important to strip the car down to bare metal?  I'm assuming that if I start painting now, it'll leave some residual behind.

Here it is so far, stripping down the logos:

Question: is it really necessary to take these down to bare metal. Why not just a light sand, prime and paint.
Especially for us guys not selling but keeping for ourself?

Might I suggest Helio's Pennzoil car if you want a 1 color car with great decals available from indycals.net!

[Calvin]

I would recommend always taking it down to bare metal.....you always run a chance of paint problems going over the original paint.

Make sure to use self etching primer when going over bare metal or will never stick or if you use Tamiya paint buy metal primer and then you use the normal white primer.

[Deleted]

Jul 26, 2014 8:26:54 GMT -5 senn65 said:

Ok if you're just going to do this one car then discontinue reading, if this will be a hobby then invest in a few tools. Disassembly on any die cast can be disheartening especially these but with a couple tools can be rewarding. BUY A DREMEL, either battery or electric & some carbide bits. All the plastic parts are either "welded" to melt them over or "punched" in place with a machine where the metal is mushroomed to hold it in place. After removing the wheels the suspension pieces are "welded". Look the car over & you can see which pieces need ground off with your Dremel then can be removed. The lower wishbones are all one piece. The body cannot be separated until you "unweld" this part also "unweld" the push rods (the other ends go under the shock cover we'll get to that later). After the rear suspension/transmission are removed then the cockpit can be separated from the side pods. This will leave the underwing & lower wishbones together. I take a flat screwdriver & jam it under the wishbones front & rear with a twist & the wishbones will pop right off. This keeps you from masking it off when to paint portions of the underwing. Now turn over the car & you'll see 3 screws, 2 in front & 1 in back, remove these & the cockpit will separate from the side pods. Now you'll see 2 plastic exhaust pipes, grind off the "punched" metal holding them in place being careful NOT to harm the plastic but some can't be helped now remove those & the 2 plastic radiator pieces that will pull right out. Now with your Dremel grind off the "welds" from the seat & remove it. The grind off the "welds" (3)from the plastic head surround & remove it. Now you'll see the plastic fuel buckeye, the instrument panel which are "metal punched" in place. With your Dremel & a small bit grind off the mushroomed top of the metal trying NOT to grind away the plastic, it can be done if you're careful now remove these. There are 3 plastic antennas, by now you have probably broken off the one on the nose just handling the car I know b/c I have done it a few times. These are "welded" & get stuck in their holes when the heat was applied at the factory, they are very hard to remove, I have good success with my tiny punches which are nothing more than a set of those tiny screw drivers that I use for puches, they work GREAT. You can buy a set of these at any flea market or hardware store. After all this you can remove the paint. There is a plastic piece inside the airbox. I remove the airbox (optional) so I can remove this piece of plastic & throw it as far as I can & pay no attention to where it lands. I do not re install it. I also remove the camera b/c some are painted a different color that the body. It makes painting 100 times easier but this is optional. I don't mean to discourage you or be the only way to do things with all this posting, but if you follow this you will not be. There will be other tips from other guys here so they may have better ideas. If you have any questions just ask. Oh I forgot about the shock cover. It is glued in place with 3 little tabs, I take a screw driver & pry front & back on both sides a little at a time so as not to break off the tabs, now you can remove the push rods with your fingers, they will probably fall out on their own.

Thanks for the dremel notes, Sean.  I actually have one somewhere in this house, just gotta dig it up!  Definitely looks like I need it for dash and fuel inlet removal.

[senn65]

Ok here's how (I) remove the mirrors, works every time. I have a 3/4" hole drill about 1" deep in my work bench. After the car is taken apart I lay the tub on it's side with the mirror down in that hole. Now I take one of those tiny screw drivers I mentioned, the one about the size of the mirror hole then RAP it sharply with a blunt tool a few times & it pops right out. The secret is the blunt tool, not a heavy hammer but something like the handle of a regular screw driver, anything too heavy will deform the side of the tub. These mirrors are really in there & you don't have to wait until you strip them. I can pop these out in about 10 seconds with no breaking off the tab.

Here is one of the bits I use. They're tungsten carbide, the high speed bit will wear out very quickly & are not meant for metal. These carbide bits are perfect for the parts that are "punched" in place like the fuel buckeye & instrument panel but can be used on the plastic glued parts as well. Most hobby shops & hardware stores sell these.

www.amazon.com/Dremel-9904-Tungsten-Carbide-Cutter/dp/B00004UDJM/ref=sr_1_59?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1406478297&sr=1-59&keywords=dremel+drill+bits+for+metal

[Deleted]

Used your technique and the mirrors popped right out. Only issue now is airbox removal and, yes I did break the antenna on the front of the cockpit, now that little bit of plastic is stuck and won't budge at all. I'll start on paint removal tomorrow after work, gonna grab a pair of better gloves.

[senn65]

Jul 27, 2014 15:58:31 GMT -5 @indy500fan said:

Used your technique and the mirrors popped right out. Only issue now is airbox removal and, yes I did break the antenna on the front of the cockpit, now that little bit of plastic is stuck and won't budge at all. I'll start on paint removal tomorrow after work, gonna grab a pair of better gloves.

Great like I said it's the right size punch. What I do before that with the carbide bit I showed you is stick it where the mirror comes through the inside & grind away a bit of the end, that loosens some of the glue they used plus it will give you a spot to place your punch. I also misspoke, it's a 1/2" hole in my work bench for this. I also have 3/4" for other purposes. The airbox is just glued with a very tight fit. Grind away as much of the 2 tits sticking through then rap it with a blunt tool like that screw driver I mentioned & it will pop right off, then you can throw away that plastic piece inside. Glue it back with CA (super glue). If you want to remove the camera use that same bit & jam it down inside until you see a little cupped place from the grinding then place the airbox upside down it the 1/2" hole & rap it a few times with a punch, it's a tiny hole & a really tight fit so use a tiny punch. The paint remover will most likely eat away some of that plastic antenna piece that's stuck then you can remove it with a hobby knife. I'd like to have some of the glue those Chinese use on these cars, that stuff it strong.

[Deleted]

Put the paint remover on it last night, pretty pleased for a first attempt. Biggest rough spot is the front wing end plates from what I can tell. Is it best to hit it again with paint remover or rub/sand it?

[mrpeters]

what paint remover did you use? i would just put more on and scrub with a wire brush and that will come right off. Best stuff is the Kleen Strip Aircraft Remover, but sometimes the Gel stuff you can get from the hardware store, while brutal on your hands and the fumes suck, will remove that in about 10 seconds with a toothbrush haha

[IndyCarModels]

I use the paint remover a second time. Usually takes me about 2 days to remove the paint but I'm old and usually have about half a dozen projects working at one time.

[senn65]

I'm still working on the stripped donors I did last fall. I strip about 6 or 8 when the weather lets me do it outside then I have them clean all winter. I spray on my stripper let sit for about 20 minutes then rinse it off with a hose. Also it all depends on the car you choose. There are some that dynamite won't remove the paint, I don't buy them any longer. The easiest is the blue & white event car. The blue & white Katherine Legge (which is not the car she drove BTW) & the Graham Rahal blue & red are horrid.

[chromehorn08]

Nice start. What I do after stripping paint is sand it with a sanding disc on the dremel. Takes off rough edges and any left over stripper residue. Then clean it and prime it. That's all I can really add. Other guys here have you all caught up. They're the masters so they will steer you in the right direction. Welcome aboard and can't wait to see your cars progress.

[Deleted]

Pretty happy with the way the primer came out, went with the self itching primer and it looks good! (IMO anyways lol). Th big mistake I had was when I glued the airbox back on, got some glue on my finger and didn't clean before I primered; leaving a thumb print on the airbox. I'll attempt to sand that out. Now onto the plastic bits and removing that paint.

Can I use the itching primer on the plastic bits, or should I go with something else, like Tamiya.

[mjjracer]

Jul 29, 2014 20:55:51 GMT -5 senn65 said:

I'm still working on the stripped donors I did last fall. I strip about 6 or 8 when the weather lets me do it outside then I have them clean all winter. I spray on my stripper let sit for about 20 minutes then rinse it off with a hose. Also it all depends on the car you choose. There are some that dynamite won't remove the paint, I don't buy them any longer. The easiest is the blue & white event car. The blue & white Katherine Legge (which is not the car she drove BTW) & the Graham Rahal blue & red are horrid.

Figures - about to start my first (well, in about 15 years) diecast conversion, and of course the car I have is Kats. Any suggestions on getting that paint off?

Thanks for all the info guys. This is truly a one stop shop for Indycar modeling info.

MJ

[senn65]

I had to sand off most 60% of Kats car. That & Rahal's paint is something different than other models, I don't understand that. I have several different types of sanders I use which makes it much easier, tools tools tools, gotta have'em if you're serious about this hobby unless you want to work your tail off. BTW there is a mold line all along the sidepods, don't know if it's bad tooling or where the tool is "halved" but getting that line off makes a slicker looking finish.

[Deleted]

Realized that trying to primer again over primer didn't work so well! Ended up with a pretty rough texture. So I got out the paint remover on the tub and am currently in process of re-doing it. Plastic bits are soaking now in Simple Green, and I hope to apply some paint tomorrow. As far as painters tape, I've seen a couple of suggestions in threads for Scotch 1/8" and Tamiya. Any big differences?

[mrpeters]

Jul 30, 2014 20:18:59 GMT -5 mjjracer said:

Jul 29, 2014 20:55:51 GMT -5 senn65 said:

I'm still working on the stripped donors I did last fall. I strip about 6 or 8 when the weather lets me do it outside then I have them clean all winter. I spray on my stripper let sit for about 20 minutes then rinse it off with a hose. Also it all depends on the car you choose. There are some that dynamite won't remove the paint, I don't buy them any longer. The easiest is the blue & white event car. The blue & white Katherine Legge (which is not the car she drove BTW) & the Graham Rahal blue & red are horrid.

Figures - about to start my first (well, in about 15 years) diecast conversion, and of course the car I have is Kats. Any suggestions on getting that paint off?

Thanks for all the info guys. This is truly a one stop shop for Indycar modeling info.

MJ

etching primer has acids in it that etch the metal, i wouldnt advise on plastic or resin

tamiya grey primer for plastic should do just fine. If you soak the plastic bits in Simple Green degreaser for about a week, the original paint will come off with a fingernail and toothbrush. ELO, is an option too.

[Deleted]

Well, the paint started off well until I got to my sidepods! One side was fantastic, the right side...not so much as pictured here! Problem was I went crazy with the can and didn't pay attention to it pooling together, and tried wiping down before it started drying, too late. Oh well, we will call this a practice session!

[senn65]

Guessing you used a solvent paint, just take a rag & thinner & remove the bad side. You'll have to cover the good side though to prime. OR take an aluminum pie pan pour some thinner in it & give it a bath with a small paint brush removing all the paint & start over. other stuff looks good. Etching primer won't hurt plastic, I use it on head surround, suspension & underwing.

[Deleted]

Alright I've finally got around to more progress on this turd. Really made a mistake with the scotch blue painters tape that I used. It's way too thick and has made masking a paint in the (expletive deleted)! A lot of over spray issues that I plan to resolve. Luckily this yellow goes well over blue and red so I'll hopefully get to clear up my lines once my Tamiya comes in. Here it is so far:

[chromehorn08]

It looks good. What car are you making?

On my recent builds I've just laid Tamiya masking tape on most of the car. Draw out the pattern that I need to paint and cut it off with a nice sharp blade. Get a clean cut and the masking tape is nice and tight to the body no need for much burnishing. I've always had trouble the other way. You're doing good. Good luck with the rest of your build.

[senn65]

Aug 17, 2014 18:24:53 GMT -5 @indy500fan said:

Alright I've finally got around to more progress on this turd. Really made a mistake with the scotch blue painters tape that I used. It's way too thick and has made masking a paint in the (expletive deleted)! A lot of over spray issues that I plan to resolve. Luckily this yellow goes well over blue and red so I'll hopefully get to clear up my lines once my Tamiya comes in. Here it is so far:

Actually for painters tape that's not bad at all. I'm strictly a Tamiya & Scotch 1/8" tape man myself. If you used solvent paint (lacquer such as Krylon or similar spray cans) here is a tip. I see a tiny bit of red that got on the yellow sidepod probably sneaked under the tape, If you do this within 5 minutes you can remove that red spot. Take some paint thinner NOT LAQUER THINNER & put some on a Q-tip you can rub that red spot off the solvent paint, but you have to do it quickly when it's still a bit "green". It won't hurt the yellow b/c it's already cured. I remove all my tape as soon as I can so I can see if anything got under my tape which rarely happens, but we all make mistakes.

[senn65]

One more thing (ha I just won't shut up) unless the head surround is a different color than the cockpit always glue that in before painting. If you paint it separate when you glue it on later I'll bet my next check it will be a different shade than the rest, unless it's all black of course.

[IndyCarModels]

I just started using yellow Frog Tape and it works great.  Much better than the Blue Tape which was better than masking tape.